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Free Alec Burks

kennykyle said:
Sooooo everyone else has to earn their minutes but Burks gets them handed to him because he is younger and he might do better, maybe, possibly.

I mean all 3 of them are playing better than Burks, not all 3 of them are playing, but all three of them are playing better than Burks, just like I originally typed it.

Burks is not playing a lot but he is shooting 20% from the field, 0% from 3, and 20% from the line. His D is not stellar, he tries hard but he isn't a good defender yet, gets lost off the ball all the time ( yes I go out of my way to watch him and him only when he comes into the game ) So you tell me how Alec has played in his limited minutes? Would not very good at all be appropriate? Or would terribly be appropriate? I'm sure if he got 25 min a game his stats would go up, he would probably shoot a little better, he would get to the line a few times but I mean he is shooting 20% so thats kind of a waste, he'd get beat on D pretty often but hell he has potential and is athletic so even though he isnt helping on offense either we can let that slide. I think maybe Ty is seeing stuff in practice that leads him to believe that Marvin, Gordon, and Foye are all better players right now, and you know what? He'd be right, they are all better players than Burks. So yeah I would love to see Burks get 10-15 minutes a game but I'd rather see the best player play. I'm sure thats Ty's train of thought also.

Hayward does everything better than Burks except get to the line, but Burks is shooting 20% from the line so who cares

Foye has been money lately so shut up with that stupid *** argument that he had one pretty bad shooting night. He is shooting 42.6% from 3, thats pretty good. Burks ... 0%

Marvin is shooting 47% this year thats not life changing but its pretty good, he is also a far superior defender who can guard 2 or 3 positions. Sure he dissapears on offense but who he plays solid D all the time.

Burks gets in every once in awhile and shoots 20% from the field, 0% from 3, and 20% from the line all the while being just a decent defender. But yeah lets sit one of these other guys. Carrol is alreay sitting, he was the only one who is not as good as Burks and Ty has benched him.

I want Burks to play, I just want him to play well enough to earn it. Thats all.
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Foye is also shooting 40% from the field so shut up about that.
And again you are missing the point.... myself and everyone else are NOT saying that burks should play big minutes and that foye, hayward, and marvin should be on the bench.
We are just saying that burks should get some consistent minutes... Thats all. You are making this into a much bigger issue than it really is.
Just give burks some minutes each game.... Not a ton of minutes, just a few every single game.
As far as burks earning his minutes..... marvin, and foye just arrived this year and never had to earn thier minutes with the jazz. Burks has been here longer than both of them and did his best to earn his minutes in summer league and pre-season and what did he get for it? DNP's. What did marvin and foye do to earn thier minutes? From game number 1 they were given thier minutes.... it comes down once again to the fact that corbin loves vets.

But forget all of that because we are getting away from the point once again which is: Just give burks a few minutes every single game, not a lot of minutes, just a few. We used a lottery pick on the guy and he has shown alot of promise when he has been given regular playing time. There is a reason so many of us have wanted to see him play, and that reason is because when he has been given the opportunity (at time last year when bell and cj were hurt, summer league, college ball, pre-season) he has looked quite good.

So in summary, just give him 10 minutes in every game...... and dont make him earn them since foye, tinsley, marvin never had to earn thiers and dont see thier minutes go down when they play badly.... just be fair and treat burks similar to rest of the team.
 
fishonjazz said:
Foye is also shooting 40% from the field so shut up about that.
And again you are missing the point.... myself and everyone else are NOT saying that burks should play big minutes and that foye, hayward, and marvin should be on the bench.
We are just saying that burks should get some consistent minutes... Thats all. You are making this into a much bigger issue than it really is.
Just give burks some minutes each game.... Not a ton of minutes, just a few every single game.
As far as burks earning his minutes..... marvin, and foye just arrived this year and never had to earn thier minutes with the jazz. Burks has been here longer than both of them and did his best to earn his minutes in summer league and pre-season and what did he get for it? DNP's. What did marvin and foye do to earn thier minutes? From game number 1 they were given thier minutes.... it comes down once again to the fact that corbin loves vets.

But forget all of that because we are getting away from the point once again which is: Just give burks a few minutes every single game, not a lot of minutes, just a few. We used a lottery pick on the guy and he has shown alot of promise when he has been given regular playing time. There is a reason so many of us have wanted to see him play, and that reason is because when he has been given the opportunity (at time last year when bell and cj were hurt, summer league, college ball, pre-season) he has looked quite good.

So in summary, just give him 10 minutes in every game...... and dont make him earn them since foye, tinsley, marvin never had to earn thiers and dont see thier minutes go down when they play badly.... just be fair and treat burks similar to rest of the team.
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Foye, Tinsley, and Marvin earned their minutes with previous succesful NBA play on their resume. So thats a dumb point. Foye is shooting 42% Burks 20%, Foye is shooting 42% from 3 Burks is shooting 0% from 3, So shut up about that.

Buttttttttt I do agree I would like to see Burks get 10 consistent minutes a game. I think that is possible, but once again, he isnt playing that well at all, so he probably isnt doing that much in practice either. I dont think Ty is just blindly sitting Burks for no good reason.
 
kennykyle said:
Foye, Tinsley, and Marvin earned their minutes with previous succesful NBA play on their resume. So thats a dumb point. Foye is shooting 42% Burks 20%, Foye is shooting 42% from 3 Burks is shooting 0% from 3, So shut up about that.

Buttttttttt I do agree I would like to see Burks get 10 consistent minutes a game. I think that is possible, but once again, he isnt playing that well at all, so he probably isnt doing that much in practice either. I dont think Ty is just blindly sitting Burks for no good reason.
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You are comparing apples to oranges with the shooting percentages.... The apples (marvin and foye) are getting consistant minutes and playing thier proper postitions with better players in the game with them. The orange (burks) is not getting any kind of consistent minutes and is playing small forward (not his position) and playing with less talented players

I do think that ty is blindly sitting burks for no good reason (unless you believe that he is being DNP'd due to his youth and inexperience is a good reason). So we will have to agree to disagree.
I think ty has shown alot of deficiencies in his coaching ability quite often so far in his young career and i think giving DNP's to burks is one of those deficiencies.
 
Free alec burks?

I mean we are not that good anyway, might as well play him a little right?
 
I'm not a huge Burks homer. In the draft, Leonard was my guy. That being said, apparently the Jazz deemed Burks better than Leonard. Why is the guy deemed better than Leonard buried on the bench? I'm not really an extremist. I don't think playing Burks will make us more competitive (and I don't think most people do, despite the hyperbole). On the flipside, I don't think the choice to play any of the other guys has much of an effect on games. The reality is that whether or not Burks plays will have no appreciable effect on the outcome of games or on the season as a whole. In this circumstance why do we defer to people not in long-term plans in the name of 'competitiveness' at the expense of those likely in the long-term plans in the name of 'the future' when the outcome of the here-and-now is exactly the same regardless the decision?
 
He was probably the happiest and most excited guy on the bench when al hit the 3 against toronto.

You hardly ever see him celebration for 2 reasons.... 1. he is pissed that he gets dnp's all the time (rightfully so imo).....2. because he is at the very end of the bench with murphy and those two are hardly ever even on screen since the camera usually is focused on the reaction of the guys who actually play and the head coach
 
infection said:
I'm not a huge Burks homer. In the draft, Leonard was my guy. That being said, apparently the Jazz deemed Burks better than Leonard. Why is the guy deemed better than Leonard buried on the bench? I'm not really an extremist. I don't think playing Burks will make us more competitive (and I don't think most people do, despite the hyperbole). On the flipside, I don't think the choice to play any of the other guys has much of an effect on games. The reality is that whether or not Burks plays will have no appreciable effect on the outcome of games or on the season as a whole. In this circumstance why do we defer to people not in long-term plans in the name of 'competitiveness' at the expense of those likely in the long-term plans in the name of 'the future' when the outcome of the here-and-now is exactly the same regardless the decision?
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Great post. I hope kenny kyle reads this.

I was thinking about the whole earn your minutes thing today and wondered why the jazz even drafted burks.
I mean they must have watched alot of game tape from college and probably even some high school film.
They must have looked at his measurements at the combine.
They must have either brought him in for workouts or seen him in other workouts.
They must have sent scouts to at least a few of his games at colorado.

So assuming they did all that, then when they drafted him at #12 they must have thought that he could get minutes on a team with wings like bell, CJ, and howard right? Otherwise why would you draft a guy that high?
So to me it seems like after all the research you do when you draft a lottery pick, you should have the idea that he will get some minutes (without "earning" them) or you shouldn't draft the guy.
 
infection said:
I'm not a huge Burks homer. In the draft, Leonard was my guy. That being said, apparently the Jazz deemed Burks better than Leonard. Why is the guy deemed better than Leonard buried on the bench? I'm not really an extremist. I don't think playing Burks will make us more competitive (and I don't think most people do, despite the hyperbole). On the flipside, I don't think the choice to play any of the other guys has much of an effect on games. The reality is that whether or not Burks plays will have no appreciable effect on the outcome of games or on the season as a whole. In this circumstance why do we defer to people not in long-term plans in the name of 'competitiveness' at the expense of those likely in the long-term plans in the name of 'the future' when the outcome of the here-and-now is exactly the same regardless the decision?
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Good post. Ty's job is to win games right now, right this very second, because if he doesn't he could very well be out of a job. Obviously with the Jazz he has a hell of a lot longer leash than other coaches but it still has to be in the back of his mind. He's not thinking "Well in 3 years Alec might be better than Foye, Marvin and Gordon so its cool to lose a few more games than we should because Alec could help us in the future." He is trying to win every single game he can, by playing who he feels will help the team the most at that particular time. He sees Alec in practice every single day, watches film on him every single day, talks to him every single day, and after all that he feels that the other players are better suited to help the Jazz win right now.

Yeah, they drafted him at the very end of the lottery, its not like he was a top 3 pick, a franchise changer (he might be but not likely), how many #12 picks have turned out to be all stars? Last year his competition was terrible, CJ, Josh, Raja and he got 15 minutes a game as a rookie. Thats not bad, not amazing but he got to play a pretty decent amount. This year he has a few players who are ahead of him who are better right now, maybe not in a year or two but right now they are. Its tough to get him in when there is a better player that plays the same position sitting right by him on the bench.

Also, its not like he isnt playing basketball, he still practices every day, works on his game every day, I have no doubt that he is getting better and when he plays better than the other players he will play instead of them. They drafted him because they think he can play, they didnt draft him knowing he would be able to play a lot right away, they had no way of knowing until they drafted him and saw him play against NBA talent. They are making their decision on his PT right now off of that.

I really do want Alec to play, I like watching him play, but I'd rather have the Jazz play the best player available and right now I dont believe that is him. And neither do the Jazz.
 
kennykyle said:
Good post. Ty's job is to win games right now, right this very second, because if he doesn't he could very well be out of a job. Obviously with the Jazz he has a hell of a lot longer leash than other coaches but it still has to be in the back of his mind. He's not thinking "Well in 3 years Alec might be better than Foye, Marvin and Gordon so its cool to lose a few more games than we should because Alec could help us in the future." He is trying to win every single game he can, by playing who he feels will help the team the most at that particular time. He sees Alec in practice every single day, watches film on him every single day, talks to him every single day, and after all that he feels that the other players are better suited to help the Jazz win right now.

Yeah, they drafted him at the very end of the lottery, its not like he was a top 3 pick, a franchise changer (he might be but not likely), how many #12 picks have turned out to be all stars? Last year his competition was terrible, CJ, Josh, Raja and he got 15 minutes a game as a rookie. Thats not bad, not amazing but he got to play a pretty decent amount. This year he has a few players who are ahead of him who are better right now, maybe not in a year or two but right now they are. Its tough to get him in when there is a better player that plays the same position sitting right by him on the bench.

Also, its not like he isnt playing basketball, he still practices every day, works on his game every day, I have no doubt that he is getting better and when he plays better than the other players he will play instead of them. They drafted him because they think he can play, they didnt draft him knowing he would be able to play a lot right away, they had no way of knowing until they drafted him and saw him play against NBA talent. They are making their decision on his PT right now off of that.

I really do want Alec to play, I like watching him play, but I'd rather have the Jazz play the best player available and right now I dont believe that is him. And neither do the Jazz.
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I'd like to address a few of your points but first I'd like to again qualify it with me not being a big "Burks needs minutes!" guy. I'm not super high on him, but do acknowledge his scoring potential and ability to get to the line is intriguing and I very well could be wrong about him. Despite this, there are some major flaws in the way the franchise is going about mixing the present and the future on a larger scale.

With regard to other guys playing more minutes in the name of 'staying competitive' I obviously didn't do a good enough job elaborating in that. We justify playing other guys more minutes because it puts us in an opportunity to win yet we keep losing. We overestimate how much effect results from playing time decisions. If you have 18 minutes a game, how large of an impact on the outcome do you think there would be, in any direction, if it were Foye or Burks on the floor? If it actually made us less competitive, we'd still be losing. How about minutes for Favors? How big of a difference will there be if five more minutes are taken from Jefferson and given to Favors? I argue not much, which makes the justification of doing it for 'competitiveness' absolutely ridiculous, especially given that we're losing.

The bigger question is the Foye acquisition. I'm not opposed to Foye and have nothing against him, but from both a financial and basketball standpoint it was a head-scratcher. The Jazz have a long history of maintaining the team within a narrow range on the profitability curve. It's been largely successful (financially primarily, but also basketball-wise but to a lesser extent). The fanship is saturated in both quantity and devotion such that adding more to the team won't draw much more fans nor will it increase devotion, as these are typically maintained at a near saturable rate by simply being a competitive team. [I'll interject here for the impassioned idiot who wants to rail on this paragraph that I'm stating this matter-of-factly and am not regarding it as a critique]. The Foye signing does not add a large amount to the team [again I have to qualify the statement for those who read this as me saying he's worthless]. While he's talented and has abilities to strengthen the team, due to his role his impact is negligible compared to his cost (both financially and with opportunity cost in player development).

I'm going to go ahead and end my post prematurely here as I am typing on a phone waiting for my connecting flight to San Antonio and I've lost my train of thought.
 
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