Game thread: jazz play a game in a couple of hours, the Timberpups edition.

[The Fresh Prince]

Lol lol Trey Burke could part the red sea and you ga- I mean guys would still find ways to hate.

I'm all for upgrading the point guard spot, but right now our sophomore player, 2nd year player that you people don as one of Corbin's veteran mancrushes is one of the most reliable players on the team.

Stop crying.

 

[freakazoid]

So you are in the spend less camp as a recipe to the title?

There are strategic reasons for a rebuilding team to try and stay under the cap. Cap space can be extremely valuable at times when few other teams have it, but besides that it gives you more flexibility to improve the team through trade. Once you're over the cap, you are more limited in improving the team, so you have to try to add as much talent as possible before you hit the cap. Right now the LT is at about 77 million, but in two years the CAP will be 11 million higher than that. That means Utah will be able to spend more and still might be able to take advantage of the benefits of staying under the cap. Building a team is far more complicated than just throwing money at the situation.
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I find it amusing that we have one group complaining that Utah never spends money, while we have another group who is concerned about us overspending on the players we have given contracts to. Of the top 5 spending teams, only two are relevant right now, with 2 of them being bottom feeders with huge payrolls and very little room to improve. Throwing huge amounts of money around is worthless without smart management.

 

[jumpin bean]

Nope. I'm in the spend wisely camp. You don't throw out huge contracts to aging veterans and players with questionable attitudes and/or work ethics. You try to build a team with complementary talents, not just players who all need to be the #1 or #2 options.

How many times has SA exceeded the luxury tax in their pursuit of titles?

3 superstars allow you to get players to play for less along with drafting wisely and knowing talent.Spurs are a top team and know how to spend money wisely, but after Duncan Ginobli and Parker are through its still going to be an uphill battle to keep up with the teams that spend the big bucks,fortunately most of these teams don't know what to spend it on,OKC ,Dallas ,Houston,etc, have spent big and are reaping rewards.Its clear that being able to spend more for players gives you an advantage,that's why its the same teams every year contending.

 

[framer]

If Trey's great game was really really helpful to the team, should that not show up during the time in which he was playing best and scoring most? Trey was 2/6 in the fourth, meaning his contribution was not that great then, most of it came earlier, yet the Jazz were behind by ten at the end of that earlier period. So Treys' great game did not yield great results. Yes, if he clanked shots it would have been worse but he was not necessarily making the team better.

As to faster and taller, yeah, that is what I think he needs to be a real NBA talent but of course its not going to happen. You cannot be both short and slow for your size and compete at that level. He better shoot a lot better or he is not long for the league. Not writing him off, he can improve the shooting and become a decent backup , maybe a bit better.

I'm stupider for having read any of that. Did you watch the game? Unless you score in the fourth quarter your points don't count? Seriously, hater. . .

 

[Stifle Tower]

3 superstars allow you to get players to play for less along with drafting wisely and knowing talent.Spurs are a top team and know how to spend money wisely, but after Duncan Ginobli and Parker are through its still going to be an uphill battle to keep up with the teams that spend the big bucks,fortunately most of these teams don't know what to spend it on,OKC ,Dallas ,Houston,etc, have spent big and are reaping rewards.Its clear that being able to spend more for players gives you an advantage,that's why its the same teams every year contending.

It's also the character of the superstars. Certainly Cleveland having LBJ, Irving and Love at their salaries doesn't allow them to get other name players to sign for less. SA is paying Parker $12.5M and Duncan $10M. Those guys WANT to win and are willing to "sacrifice" some of their money so SA can have a deep roster. Malone and Stockton could have gotten more money elsewhere. Carmelo and Kobe demanded the max without any regard to how much would be left to spend on teammates. OKC spent big? They let Harden go because they didn't want to cross the tax threshold. The only reason Utah isn't near that level yet is that a few of our starters are still on their rookie deals.

When Utah had a contending team, they were amongst the leaders in terms of total salaries (with Deron, Boozer, Okur and AK). Greg Miller actually paid luxury tax for two years. Of the teams you listed how many have won championships? Dallas in 2011. And what did Cuban do immediately thereafter? He tore apart the roster so he wouldn't have to pay the luxury tax. They barely made the playoffs the next year, then finished 41-41. Houston missed the playoffs in 2011 and then grabbed the #8 seed in 2012. Golden State...remember them having one of the worst records a few years ago? Raptors, Clippers, Portland, Chicago, Memphis, Washington: all teams that missed the playoffs in recent years and got key pieces in the draft.

Did I miss anyone? Oh, Atlanta. Got Horford in 2007. Used their 2008 pick to trade for Johnson. Got Teague #19 the next season (great value). Rest of the roster has largely been assembled via trades and free agency. Guess you'd say they've been "contending" the longest.

Have I proved it's not the same teams EVERY year (outside of SA's incredible run) that are contending? Every team has down years and has to rebuild. Unfortunately, Utah CANNOT attract top-tier FA's. Blame the mountains, blame the Mormons, blame the lack of nudie bars or the lack of a thriving ghetto culture. Whatever the reason, the majority of 20-somethings who have amazing hoop skills aren't demanding to be traded to the Jazz or calling DL and asking when they can sign on the dotted line as a free agent. Jazz HAVE to build through the draft and supplement with mid-tier FA's who generally are either overpaid or have no other options. Well, I guess we do get an occasional oddball who enjoys the family atmosphere in Utah. And that's why DL decided to do a full rebuild, hoping he'd get a superstar in the 2014 or 2015 draft. We just weren't going to contend with a big-3 of Millsap, Hayward and Favors (or Kanter).

 

[freakazoid]

3 superstars allow you to get players to play for less along with drafting wisely and knowing talent.Spurs are a top team and know how to spend money wisely, but after Duncan Ginobli and Parker are through its still going to be an uphill battle to keep up with the teams that spend the big bucks,fortunately most of these teams don't know what to spend it on,OKC ,Dallas ,Houston,etc, have spent big and are reaping rewards.Its clear that being able to spend more for players gives you an advantage,that's why its the same teams every year contending.

So Toronto and the Clippers are the teams who contend every year? Those are the only two teams in the top five who are relevant. Honestly, I don't where you think Utah should be spending this money. FAs are not lining up to play here. When small markets get too desperate to improve by throwing money around, Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva get big contracts. At this phase of the rebuild, Utah is developing their young talent and are in position to improve through trade should an opportunity arise. Desperation to improve immediately is a recipe for disaster. I believe Utah will make a significant trade sometime in the next year or two, but they have to be patient in waiting for the right deal, otherwise you end up burning valuable assets needlessly.
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I'd imagine Cleveland fans are a little sick right now over what they gave up for Love. I have no doubt there are fans on this board who would gladly burn up our assets to trade for Love, while living in some kind of denial that he wouldn't bolt in the offseason. Rebuilds take time, and throwing money around in desperation of improving immediately can turn you into the Knicks in a hurry.

 

[Sexual Favors]

 

[zman1527]

I'm stupider for having read any of that. Did you watch the game? Unless you score in the fourth quarter your points don't count? Seriously, hater. . .

Sorry to have diminished your mental capacity, so lets try again. All points are not created equal. If that were so, Carmelo and Marbury and Iverson would have rings on both hands. To repeat: Trey scored 22 of his 26 points before the 4th. In the 4th the Jazz were behind and in great danger of a very embarrassing loss on their home court to the worst team in the league. If Trey's great game was so wonderfully helpful, they should have been up by 20 going into the 4th.

When I watch the games, I see Trey get a lot of open looks. There is a reason for that. Do you understand why that is?

 

[framer]

Sorry to have diminished your mental capacity, so lets try again. All points are not created equal. If that were so, Carmelo and Marbury and Iverson would have rings on both hands. To repeat: Trey scored 22 of his 26 points before the 4th. In the 4th the Jazz were behind and in great danger of a very embarrassing loss on their home court to the worst team in the league. If Trey's great game was so wonderfully helpful, they should have been up by 20 going into the 4th.

When I watch the games, I see Trey get a lot of open looks. There is a reason for that. Do you understand why that is?

No every point counts EXACTLY the same. I don't expect Trey to be Chris Paul. That would be idiotic. What I expect Trey to do is be a floor general, drive the paint, and hit open shots, generally in that order. That is what he did, and has gotten better at doing over the past several games. I want Trey to eventually rate as a very good backup to Exum making about 7 million, because we need someone just like that. He is well on pace to make or exceed that goal. I don't have any illusions about a #9 pick in a crap draft turning into an allstar. There are about 3 players that have that possibility from that draft and we nailed it on one of them late. Seriously, lighten up Francis. . .

 

[zman1527]

No every point counts EXACTLY the same. I don't expect Trey to be Chris Paul. That would be idiotic. What I expect Trey to do is be a floor general, drive the paint, and hit open shots, generally in that order. That is what he did, and has gotten better at doing over the past several games. I want Trey to eventually rate as a very good backup to Exum making about 7 million, because we need someone just like that. He is well on pace to make or exceed that goal. I don't have any illusions about a #9 pick in a crap draft turning into an allstar. There are about 3 players that have that possibility from that draft and we nailed it on one of them late. Seriously, lighten up Francis. . .

I too would like to see Trey as a good backup, I think that is his max potential. I would like to see his assists > spg, I never want to see him take the most shots, I don't want him taking twice as many shots as Favors or Kanter.

Not sure about driving the lane. Right now he is very bad at it, rarely gets a good shot, rarely makes a good pass. In the last game I saw him get snuffed and denied a few times in the minutes I watched. Not saying he never gets anything good in the lane so do not exaggerate what I am saying here. And he should keep pushing it this year as apparently Quin has him working on some things to be more effective in the lane. If he can get that down, great. If not over time, learn to get it to the big guy and spot up for a 3. IF he can do that, set up Favors or Kanter nicely down low AND be a good 3pt option, he will be a good asset. And he will never be great causing issues in the lane, just not quick or athletic enough.

 

[jumpin bean]

So Toronto and the Clippers are the teams who contend every year? Those are the only two teams in the top five who are relevant. Honestly, I don't where you think Utah should be spending this money. FAs are not lining up to play here. When small markets get too desperate to improve by throwing money around, Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva get big contracts. At this phase of the rebuild, Utah is developing their young talent and are in position to improve through trade should an opportunity arise. Desperation to improve immediately is a recipe for disaster. I believe Utah will make a significant trade sometime in the next year or two, but they have to be patient in waiting for the right deal, otherwise you end up burning valuable assets needlessly.
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I'd imagine Cleveland fans are a little sick right now over what they gave up for Love. I have no doubt there are fans on this board who would gladly burn up our assets to trade for Love, while living in some kind of denial that he wouldn't bolt in the offseason. Rebuilds take time, and throwing money around in desperation of improving immediately can turn you into the Knicks in a hurry.

look ,Im not saying the Jazz are not going about it the best way possible.Im saying no small market team is going to win it all without spending more than what the Jazz do.That is reality.I read on here if we do this and don't do that everything is going to line up for a championship. money talks Bs Walks.

 

[framer]

I too would like to see Trey as a good backup, I think that is his max potential. I would like to see his assists > spg, I never want to see him take the most shots, I don't want him taking twice as many shots as Favors or Kanter.

Not sure about driving the lane. Right now he is very bad at it, rarely gets a good shot, rarely makes a good pass. In the last game I saw him get snuffed and denied a few times in the minutes I watched. Not saying he never gets anything good in the lane so do not exaggerate what I am saying here. And he should keep pushing it this year as apparently Quin has him working on some things to be more effective in the lane. If he can get that down, great. If not over time, learn to get it to the big guy and spot up for a 3. IF he can do that, set up Favors or Kanter nicely down low AND be a good 3pt option, he will be a good asset. And he will never be great causing issues in the lane, just not quick or athletic enough.

I see where you are coming from. Trey's drive and dish game is light years ahead of where it was last year. If Hornacek could get to the hole on the dribble drive, Trey can too. There really aren't a lot of Defensive specialist PGs in the league. The guys in the pros have a lot better lateral movement than Trey faced in college, so he will need to learn to use screens and change of pace moves that he never had to use in college. Trey can run a squad though. He rarely turns it over and can tell people where they need to be. Once the offense comes along further, a lot of those shots that trey is hitting short will start to fall because he will have to do less throughout the game. Ideally Trey should be at about 30 minutes a game at this point. The nice thing is that ALL of the things that the offense is doing to become more Trey-friendly will also apply to Exum.