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Global Warming -- How to Talk to a Skeptic

OK, let's deal with my belief.

I see carbonate beds of epochal scale all around me. In Utah geologists have measured in some places total bed thicknesses of 18,000 feet in places, with perhaps an average of 5,000 feet statewide, including Colorado plateau region. Almost every geological epoch is represented by some carbonate here except about the last fifty million years. For much of Utah's geological history, the area was continental shelf space. One epochal shoreline was forty miles east of me, one was ten miles west. At one time there was a "Sevier Orogenic Uplift" which raised a hundred mile square area to Everest heights, the source of the Colorado Plateau sediments. So how much carbon dioxide does the worldwide carbonate rock represent, if it were still in our atmosphere as it once was???

Geological facts prove to me that Earth's atmospheric carbon dioxide has been decreasing for hundreds of millions of years, since the dawn of Cambrian time. Scientists have documented this repeatedly with vast amounts of research results. Our ice ages have occurred relatively recently while atmospheric carbon dioxide was in the range of todays levels to maybe five times as much. So if we politically decided to cure the carbon dioxide deficiency, we could perhaps estimate the cost of dissolving all the carbonate rock, and the cost of replacing the annual loses to more carbonate deposition under warm shallow seas. . . . I'd be calling politicians and scientists who advocated doing that nutjobs and whackos, especially if it was a globalist scheme for transferring vast powers to governments worldwide at taxpayert expense, and at the cost of denying reasonable people the privilege of doing as they think best. . . .

My belief that our carbon dioxide atmosphere is too low has actually more scientific evidence than the belief that it is too high. Mine is the best science, the best intelligence, and most honorable position for a rational human being to take.

Your belief that an anthropogenic increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is a catastrophe that justifies transferring to government the power to regulate human activity on a global and intensively invasive scale is not science at all. It is politics.

The politics has hijacked what "science" we once had, and "science" has been transformed from an objective process of study and determining truth into a merely political propaganda operation.

I don't need to dispute a rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide from .03 to 0.04 %, or the relation of that to perhaps a rise of 1.5 F in mean global temps over a few decades to scientifically debunk the current crop of bought-and-paid for political hacks who call themselves scientists and join in the chorus that these results justify global action that will transfer wealth to a privileged few at the common expense of the general quality of life of billions of human beings. The transfer of power to government and the loss of liberty and reasonable choices for personal actions is the objective of this scam..

The fact that you go along with it blindly believing what a crop of hacks are telling you, however it relates to the research results does not change the fact that it is no longer "science" when politics and impassioned advocacy for vast increases in government power becomes the objective of the debate. You are not a scientist at all, you do not properly understand what "evidence" is, or "fact" is, or "science" is, because you insist of driving the pure science over the political cliff to non-objective interpretations and purposes.

you and a whole generation of scientists financially-dependent on the political teats of elitist governance, who have lost sight of what it means to be objective, independent, and reasonable persons of ordinary integrity.

you tag the transient rise in temps and atmospheric carbon dioxide as "bad". That's not science. That's politics.

I've been meaning to ask you if you could find some potash deposits to solution mine. The industry is in somewhat of a cyclical low but prices are still plenty high and the nutrient won't likely go out of demand anytime soon with this global population boom.

Wanna open up some ponds?
 
OK, let's deal with my belief.

I see carbonate beds of epochal scale all around me.

You also see the lower layers of this rock being malted into magma, which gets belched out of volcanoes, returning the carbon to the atmosphere, right? 500 million years ago, the earth was already 4 billion years old. You not so much the fool that you think the rocks have changed their basic composition in the past .5 billion years in some fundamental way that was not in play for the first 4 billion, are you?

Geological facts prove to me that Earth's atmospheric carbon dioxide has been decreasing for hundreds of millions of years, since the dawn of Cambrian time.

Carbon coming out of the ground is also a geological fact.

My belief that our carbon dioxide atmosphere is too low has actually more scientific evidence than the belief that it is too high. Mine is the best science, the best intelligence, and most honorable position for a rational human being to take.

Yet, it's held almost exclusively by the cranks and pseudo-scientists.

Your belief that an anthropogenic increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is a catastrophe that justifies transferring to government the power to regulate human activity on a global and intensively invasive scale is not science at all. It is politics.

No, that's your caricature, not my belief.

... to scientifically debunk the current crop of bought-and-paid for political hacks who call themselves scientists ...

Yet, it's the deniers, the ones who claim that there is no problem, who work for and with organizations funded by the power companies, while the scientists you deride rely on grants earned competitively, without any promised results.

you and a whole generation of scientists financially-dependent on the political teats of elitist governance, who have lost sight of what it means to be objective, independent, and reasonable persons of ordinary integrity.

Climate scientists use the same process as the cancer researchers and biologists you so regularly defend.

you tag the transient rise in temps and atmospheric carbon dioxide as "bad". That's not science. That's politics.

The rise in temperatures, in and of themselves, are not serious. It's the side effects.
 
Yet, it's held almost exclusively by the cranks and pseudo-scientists.

The rise in temperatures, in and of themselves, are not serious. It's the side effects.


The parallels between this and medieval religious groupthink are uncanny. We must stop carbon liberation at all costs because our world will change for the worse as defined by our favorite beliefs, traditions and customs right?


BTW, Catholics, Islams, Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, Baptists, Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, etc. all have a "how to talk to skeptics" manual.
 
The parallels between this and medieval religious groupthink are uncanny. We must stop carbon liberation at all costs because our world will change for the worse as defined by our favorite beliefs, traditions and customs right?

Stopping all carbon dioxide liberation would quickly make the world untenable.

However, I think it's a little odd to refer to weather patterns and ecological interactions as "beliefs, traditions and customs". Are you trolling?

BTW, Catholics, Islams, Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, Baptists, Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, etc. all have a "how to talk to skeptics" manual.

Of course, and I've read a couple of them. How many of them are backed by the scientific literature as a whole (as opposed to selected pieces thereof)?
 
I feel the need to post my all-time favorite response to charges that today's science is just as wrong as the last generation's science and that all scientific thoughts of today will be invalidated by future generations so believing in mainstream science is foolish. I realize that's a very specific favorite, but I'm a very specific person.

you do realize that your law professors taught you solid law practice with the dictum:

"If the truth is on your side, argue the truth.

If the truth is not on your side but some facts can be cast in support of your side, argue those facts.

If neither the truth nor any facts are on your side, attack your opponent."


This is the way politics is played today, and science as well in many cases.

Of the various subjects of science I've gained a smattering of knowledge about, I'm happy enough to go along with more than ninety percent. I focus my objections on the politicized or cartelized specialities I see as departing from good science, that's all. I don't know enough about a lot of areas to think it worthwhile discussing them. Pharmacology, chemistry, medicine, pathology, immunology, weather and climate are probably the things you'll find me talking about.

you're pretty smart. . . . clever might be one way to say it. . . and you are a pretty definitely politcal advocate for the things you believe in. Might be worthwhile getting into the factual basis for our differences of opinions. . . .
 
**** just got less real.

Unreal?

Meh, who the **** knows.
 
I've been meaning to ask you if you could find some potash deposits to solution mine. The industry is in somewhat of a cyclical low but prices are still plenty high and the nutrient won't likely go out of demand anytime soon with this global population boom.

Wanna open up some ponds?

This happens to be a business interest of mine. Let's talk.
 
How to mock the Liberal religions Armaggedon:

polar_vortex_movie.jpg
 
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