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Goddamnit I'm sorry I have to say it!

Boris said:
Solid thumb up. Also them sayin Haywood was soft is dumb. He ain't no billy badass but kid always gave it 100% on the court an worked his nuts off.

An for all y'all butt hurt haters Haywood played nearly 40 minutes or more in every playoff game cept one, had 26-40 points in 6 of ten games an stepped up huge in 4th quarters.

So STFU downplaying how good he is an call it like it is. The way he went about his business was like LeBrons Decision.
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Here I am calling it like it is:

Hayward was not a winner.

He was a very good point forward.

He was considered much more than what he is and a center-piece for many reasons.

He blocked what Jazz might achieve being the center of rebuild. That was not his fault. It's just the way it is.

The game style will change a lot and get faster as we move on from his presence.

Best of luck to him but this way it is better.

GH20
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
This has been talked about to death, but Hayward's clutch stats were right in line with most others stars. Most stars experience pretty wide season to season clutch stats as the samples are so small.

And while JJ was clutch this year, he has also had a bad "clutch" season or two when he was the first option in Atlanta.
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Good to know. I haven't paid attention to what has been talked to death, but thanks for the info that he was in line with others.
 
Jazz Spazz said:
I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I'm trying real hard.

I'm genuinely curious his clutchness here, especially the last 2 years. JJ was huge in the clutch and we won that series because of him and not Hayward. If he had 2-3 game winners, how many clutch misses down the stretch did he have?


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
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Every player misses clutch shots. Including JJ and Hayward.
 
I always thought that Hayward was overrated as a clutch player...sure he may have hit a couple of game winners, but so did Trey Burke. If you take enough of those shots you're gonna eventually make a few. To me clutch isn't only about hitting game winners, it's about CONSISTENTLY making impactful plays that change the momentum late in the game in your team's favor. Hitting a three to squash another teams comeback, or making a steal when the other team has a surefire easy fastbreak opportunity, getting a big defensive rebound, hitting free throws at the end of close games, etc. Haywad more times failed to do the latter. The Haywood cult followers would always point to the Cleveland game winner as validity that he was "clutch", but that's pretty much all they had to stand on. 7 years, one truly great game winner...yawn.

Maybe Boston is a better fit for him...IT scores more points in the 4th than any other player, so Haywood can go back to disappearing in the 2nd half/4th quarter which he's done for most of his career.
 
cowhide said:
Every player misses clutch shots. Including JJ and Hayward.
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I know this. Without looking up any numbers I would guess even the best clutch performers would be in the 40% range.
I don't expect clutch shooters to be perfect.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Not a leader? Sure, I'd agree with that, at least from a vocal perspective.

He was a winner though, through and through. Hayward was never the reason the Jazz didnt win games.
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That's funny, because he couldn't win before Rudy came along. He and Favors were both becoming borderline all stars and still couldn't figure out how to win. Rudy came along and made everyone else believe. So if Hayward is a winner, I guess everyone is who has ever played with Rudy Gobert.
 
It has been a pretty common opinion on this board that Dickward has always been a solid #2 or #3 guy, but absolutely not a top tier franchise piece. Gobert is that, but he isn't a dominant scorer/shooter. With a team of a true #1 option, plus Gobert, and throw in Haywussy, you could really make some noise. But if Hayworthless is your top option you will get generally exactly what we have for the past 3-5 years.
 
Hayward is good, but he's not quite great. He was working towards great and maybe he'll get there (let's hope not!)

He lacks a killer instinct. I think it takes a few years of painful playoff losses to develop the instinct. It takes a few summer's of heart break. KD didn't used to have it. LeBron had to earn it. I remember when Kobe didn't have it. Players can learn it. Hayward is so non-confrontational that it's possible he'll never get it. It was so interesting for me to see him get on the floor and rip the ball out of CP3's hands. I don't think I'd ever seen that side of him. It made me hope maybe he could become a killer.

Also, his post game still really sucks. That's something else he lacks. He couldn't post up Chris Paul! There were multiple games where down the stretch they ran a pick and roll to get a little guy guarding Hayward and he'd try to post up and he'd fail.

Both are things he can work on. I think he'll get his post game figured out first. But I think it'll be a few years until he can go toe to toe with the killers in the NBA. LeBron is going to eat him alive in a seven game series. The Warriors dominated the Jazz so much that it never turned into a struggle of wills. GTime isn't ready for that.
 
I would have agreed somewhat until after this all star break he went super saiyan

His made his career high in points in the playoffs against a damn good team. I getting off this subject but you know one really bonds with their college coach and now they are reuniting after Hayward has gathered 8 years of NBA knowledge from Sloan, Quin & Kobe etc.

they're going to come together to make one killer baby
 
I think Hayward was and is a good player. He's a max player assuming he stays at the same level. There is a part of me that thinks maybe moving him is for the best when considering a championship timeline with Gobert. I believe that he was one of the main reasons why the Jazz played slow, and I'm hoping that this changes. It will be interesting to see how he handles playing in an up-tempo offense.

I think he developed into a leader, and this last year he developed into a legitimate #1 scoring option. It would have taken another jump or two in growth to be a top ten guy, and I'm not sure he has it in him.
 
addictionary said:
Gordon Hayward was not a winner. He always shied away from driving in when his shot was not there.

Hayward kept the Jazz away from their actual potential.

We will realize this with the new moves and the change on game style shortly, starting with Donovan Mitchell's arrival.

There I said it.


GH20
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Dude is solid, however he's the only superstar I know of in the league that basically had to have a hired gun (JJ) come in and finish games for him. Terrible closer IMO, kid's got a mental block I think. In that sense he's a little propped up and Boston will realize this sooner than later. Also I'm actually glad we didn't resign him because he would have hamstrung us financially and he's not enough to get us over the hump with Golden State. There I said that.
 
Who gives a hell, Butlers not even in the Jazz conference. They might even grab a one seed over in that Big bad East... all the realignment has really depleted the teams in that conference.
Utah is going to break the Warriors record for wins in a season and basically every other record by holding opponents to 7% shooting for the season. They will easily win the Finals.
 
8 said:
Who gives a hell, Butlers not even in the Jazz conference. They might even grab a one seed over in that Big bad East... all the realignment has really depleted the teams in that conference.
Utah is going to break the Warriors record for wins in a season and basically every other record by holding opponents to 7% shooting for the season. They will easily win the Finals.
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Only problem is that the Jazz are going to shoot 6%. I see Utah having some games in the 60's, maybe even a couple in the 50's. It's going to be very ugly at times.
 
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