Good Article - "NBA Free Agency 2016: Utah Jazz cap situation and future-proofing"

[GVC]

Personally, I think y'all are a little touched in the head with stifle tower syndrome. In other words. I'm not sure why so many fans want to take what is said to the media quite so ****ing literally. What do you guys expect DL to say when asked about the team? We have 4 or 5 guys we'd like to keep and are really hoping we can trade the rest for better players? I'm sorry, but THE CAKE IS A LIE!, and it always has been. It's just one of those things management says to the media to try and appease the fans while at the same time not killing morale among the players.

It really cracks me up that over the last few years, DL matched a contract for Hayward that 90% of fans thought he shouldn't, gave a contract to Burks that a lot of fans questioned, and by all accounts, he and Quin were preparing to match a ridiculous contract for Kanter, but now fans think he was somehow not aware of the financial situation the team would be faced with over the next few years.

Here's a thought: Did anyone ever consider that maybe FAs aren't lining up to come sign in Utah? Some of you guys act like opportunities to improve the team were just jumping in the air trying to land in our boat, and DL has been beating them off with a stick. Well, sorry, but I think you're full of ****.

Just one season ago, Utah had the best Defense in the league, 4th best point differential, and was one of the best teams in the NBA for half a season before injuries kicked our ***. But now it seems, everyone wants to blow it off as a fluke, because apparently most fans only watch players when they are playing offense.

Perhaps management could have been a little more aggressive, but most of the complaints here are just based on jumping to a bunch of conclusions about opportunities that none of know the details of, or whether or not they existed at all.

Utah has been able to sign free agents and make trades in the past. KOC did both to great effect after Stockton retired and Malone left. Is it possible that the only players who Utah has had any shot at signing or trading for the last 4 years are Mack and Booker? I suppose. It doesn't seem very likely.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Reading is fundamental. Way to miss the point.

LOl. You suck. Bring back the old GVC.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Lol, GVC just negged me. Ouch. Anyway, like I said, I think DL could have been more aggressive, and I'm far from a cake baker. However, I think the team was in fantastic shape before Exum got injured, and it just gets a little annoying to listen to people gripe about what a complete failure DL has been. I think it's horse ****, and will continue to call a spade a spade. Carry on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Personally, I think y'all are a little touched in the head with stifle tower syndrome. In other words. I'm not sure why so many fans want to take what is said to the media quite so ****ing literally. What do you guys expect DL to say when asked about the team? We have 4 or 5 guys we'd like to keep and are really hoping we can trade the rest for better players? I'm sorry, but THE CAKE IS A LIE!, and it always has been. It's just one of those things management says to the media to try and appease the fans while at the same time not killing morale among the players.

It really cracks me up that over the last few years, DL matched a contract for Hayward that 90% of fans thought he shouldn't, gave a contract to Burks that a lot of fans questioned, and by all accounts, he and Quin were preparing to match a ridiculous contract for Kanter, but now fans think he was somehow not aware of the financial situation the team would be faced with over the next few years.

Here's a thought: Did anyone ever consider that maybe FAs aren't lining up to come sign in Utah? Some of you guys act like opportunities to improve the team were just jumping in the air trying to land in our boat, and DL has been beating them off with a stick. Well, sorry, but I think you're full of ****.

Just one season ago, Utah had the best Defense in the league, 4th best point differential, and was one of the best teams in the NBA for half a season before injuries kicked our ***. But now it seems, everyone wants to blow it off as a fluke, because apparently most fans only watch players when they are playing offense.

Perhaps management could have been a little more aggressive, but most of the complaints here are just based on jumping to a bunch of conclusions about opportunities that none of know the details of, or whether or not they existed at all.

We could have traded for some of the salary dump guys or offered some of the guys like Lin or Casspi twice as much and they would have come here and still would have been bargains. We didn't try to get in those conversations (at least it seems).

I get it we likely won't get top tier guys but don't act like we were some juggernaut. We had a good run to end a season but a handful of those wins came as teams were laying down.

We have some good pieces for sure... But we had opportunities to get more good pieces and punted. Management isn't flawless.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Lol, GVC just negged me. Ouch. Anyway, like I said, I think DL could have been more aggressive, and I'm far from a cake baker. However, I think the team was in fantastic shape before Exum got injured, and it just gets a little annoying to listen to people gripe about what a complete failure DL has been. I think it's horse ****, and will continue to call a spade a spade. Carry on.

Also, I didn't have an issue with not getting another pg on the Lin level but then we gave up on Trey Burke at the first sign of issues. Neto was never meant to be the backup this year. If we weren't commited to Trey, which it seems we weren't, why not upgrade with a better backup in the offseason.

 

[NAOS]

HH pretty much owns these discussions.

 

[GVC]

Every team has injuries every year. Go ahead and plan on perfect health and have 8 NBA players and the rest d leaguers and see what happens. This year it was burks Exum favors and Gobert... Prior year it was Hood and I believe favors missed a little time. The injury excuse was dumb... We had more than our fair share but we're bound to have some.

The problem with their argument goes beyond the no-injury assumption. Even if the average player misses ~5 games, cutting each player's minutes by 10% would create another 25.5 minutes per game for another player.

An example using the roster from the start of this past season: Assume 77 games are played by each player, so that each position needs 51 minutes per game filled. Here's a rotation that provides appropriate(-ish) minutes for the stars, vets, youth and main depth players:

5 - Gobert(33) Favors(18)
4 - Favors(15) Lyles(18) Booker(18)
3 - Hayward(35) Ingles(12) Hood(4)
2 - Burks(28) Hood(23)
1 - Exum(27) Burke(12) Neto(12)

Totals:
Hayward(35)
Gobert(33)
Favors(33)
Burks(28)
Hood(27)
Exum(27)
Lyles(18)
Booker(18)
Ingles(12)
Burke(12)
Neto(12)

Taking ~10% off each player's minutes and adding a free agent rotation player (with 27 minutes per game) -- bringing the rotation to 12 players:
Hayward(32)
Gobert(30)
Favors(30)
Free Agent(27)
Exum(26)
Burks(24)
Hood(24)
Lyles(16)
Booker(16)
Ingles(10)
Burke(10)
Neto(10)

Beyond this cutting of 10% of existing rotation minutes, you have 46 'depth' minutes going to Neto, Burke, Ingles and Booker. Further, if players are in need of more playing time, other players can be traded for other assets. There was plenty of flexibility to add talent to the roster. If DL and Quin aren't creative enough to make use of additional talent, the Jazz are screwed. The team doesn't have enough talent to contend now or in the future. Operating out of Utah, the team can't let prime opportunities to add talent or other assets go to waste.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

We could have traded for some of the salary dump guys or offered some of the guys like Lin or Casspi twice as much and they would have come here and still would have been bargains. We didn't try to get in those conversations (at least it seems).

I get it we likely won't get top tier guys but don't act like we were some juggernaut. We had a good run to end a season but a handful of those wins came as teams were laying down.

We have some good pieces for sure... But we had opportunities to get more good pieces and punted. Management isn't flawless.

We were beating the best teams in the west with a defense that was best in the league by a long shot, but go ahead and downplay it. Like I said, we don't really know what conversations DL has been involved in. Everybody was crying in their beer after the deadline passed because they just knew the Jazz just sat on their hands and didn't try to make any trades. Then we find out that Utah was trying to acquire Teague and backed out because they didn't want to give up Hood, and funny thing is, NOBODY else traded for Teague either, because, low and behold, the Hawks were just seeing if they could rob somebody.

Like I said, I was never a cake baker, and I wanted Utah to trade for Lawson BEFORE Exum even got injured. I just think fans make a lot of assumptions and get a little to impatient with the process. Right now I think DL has done just fine. Now if the team sucks again next year and DL allows a situation where Hayward walks for nothing, I will gladly pick up a pitchfork and march right along with the rest of the malcontents to the tar and feather pole. Until then, I'm giving DL the benefit of the doubt because I believe the competition for players right now is extremely stiff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The problem with their argument goes beyond the no-injury assumption. Even if the average player misses ~5 games, cutting each player's minutes by 10% would create another 25.5 minutes per game for another player.

An example using the roster from the start of this past season: Assume 77 games are played by each player, so that each position needs 51 minutes per game filled. Here's a rotation that provides appropriate(-ish) minutes for the stars, vets and main depth players:

5 - Gobert(33) Favors(18)
4 - Favors(15) Lyles(18) Booker(18)
3 - Hayward(35) Ingles(12) Hood(4)
2 - Burks(28) Hood(23)
1 - Exum(27) Burke(12) Neto(12)

Totals:
Hayward(35)
Gobert(33)
Favors(33)
Burks(28)
Hood(27)
Exum(27)
Lyles(18)
Booker(18)
Ingles(12)
Burke(12)
Neto(12)

Taking ~10% off each player's minutes and adding a free agent rotation player (with 27 minutes per game) -- bringing the rotation to 12 players:
Hayward(32)
Gobert(30)
Favors(30)
Free Agent(27)
Exum(26)
Burks(24)
Hood(24)
Lyles(16)
Booker(16)
Ingles(10)
Burke(10)
Neto(10)

Beyond this cutting of 10% of existing rotation minutes, you have 46 'depth' minutes going to Neto, Burke, Ingles and Booker. Further, if players are in need of more playing time, other players can be traded for other assets. There was plenty of flexibility to add talent to the roster. If DL and Quin aren't creative enough to make use of additional talent, the Jazz are screwed. The team doesn't have enough talent to contend now or in the future. Operating out of Utah, the team can't let prime opportunities to add talent or other assets go to waste.

This is the super duper smart way to make the argument I was making. most of the players I wanted to add played multiple positions... If they have NBA skills a great coach finds a way to utilize them.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We were beating the best teams in the west with a defense that was best in the league by a long shot, but go ahead and downplay it. Like I said, we don't really know what conversations DL has been involved in. Everybody was crying in their beer after the deadline passed because they just knew the Jazz just sat on their hands and didn't try to make any trades. Then we find out that Utah was trying to acquire Teague and backed out because they didn't want to give up Hood, and funny thing is, NOBODY else traded for Teague either, because, low and behold, the Hawks were just seeing if they could rob somebody.

Like I said, I was never a cake baker, and I wanted Utah to trade for Lawson BEFORE Exum even got injured. I just think fans make a lot of assumptions and get a little to impatient with the process. Right now I think DL has done just fine. Now if the team sucks again next year and DL allows a situation where Hayward walks for nothing, I will gladly pick up a pitchfork and march right along with the rest of the malcontents to the tar and feather pole. Until then, I'm giving DL the benefit of the doubt because I believe the competition for players right now is extremely stiff.

I've never mentioned the trade deadline... That rant is a complete straw man. We beat some good teams and went like 19-10 down the stretch... That's great but it's an awfully limited sample size to hang your hat on.

I don't know individual conversations that is correct... I do know some guys were signed for half what I would have paid them... Some of those guys became bargains... We ended the year with excess cap space that doesn't do **** for us... I'm guessing if we doubled Lin, Casspis salary they would have come here... I'm guessing if we had called Milwaukee with one of our many second rounders for Dudley that they would have done business with us rather than a team they were directly competing with.

The effed up... DL all but admitted it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Every team has injuries every year.

It isn't just injuries though. It's the length of them and who gets them.

For instance. Let's look at the remaining teams in the playoffs.

How many games did key (top 8) players miss for the thunder, warriors, cavs, and raptors miss?
I'm guessing not very many. No where near the jazz.

Regardless of what the jazz did last summer when you have as many injuries to your top guys as the jazz did, and not have a true star player (I don't think we could have got a star last summer), then you won't be very good. That's just the way it is. For every team. No matter how much depth they have.

The jazz top guys missed about 180 games.

If the thunder, cavs, spurs, and warriors have their top 8 guys miss around 180 games then they wouldn't be very good. And those teams are the cream of the crop and have superstars to help carry then when injuries strike. Yet even those teams would struggle.

Yes the jazz should have done more in free agency last summer. There I said it.
If they had picked up a few guys I still don't think we would have been very good though and there is no guarantee they wouldn't get hurt too or that they would perform at the level we expected when we signed them (carroll, green, matthews)

Then if we stay healthy we have a talented, high paid player getting disgruntled while sitting on the bench.

Those that say "then we just just them" like it so easy, I don't think it is always that easy time get good value on disgruntled bench players (kanter?).

 

[fishonjazz]

Personally, I think y'all are a little touched in the head with stifle tower syndrome. In other words. I'm not sure why so many fans want to take what is said to the media quite so ****ing literally. What do you guys expect DL to say when asked about the team? We have 4 or 5 guys we'd like to keep and are really hoping we can trade the rest for better players? I'm sorry, but THE CAKE IS A LIE!, and it always has been. It's just one of those things management says to the media to try and appease the fans while at the same time not killing morale among the players.

It really cracks me up that over the last few years, DL matched a contract for Hayward that 90% of fans thought he shouldn't, gave a contract to Burks that a lot of fans questioned, and by all accounts, he and Quin were preparing to match a ridiculous contract for Kanter, but now fans think he was somehow not aware of the financial situation the team would be faced with over the next few years.

Here's a thought: Did anyone ever consider that maybe FAs aren't lining up to come sign in Utah? Some of you guys act like opportunities to improve the team were just jumping in the air trying to land in our boat, and DL has been beating them off with a stick. Well, sorry, but I think you're full of ****.

Just one season ago, Utah had the best Defense in the league, 4th best point differential, and was one of the best teams in the NBA for half a season before injuries kicked our ***. But now it seems, everyone wants to blow it off as a fluke, because apparently most fans only watch players when they are playing offense.

Perhaps management could have been a little more aggressive, but most of the complaints here are just based on jumping to a bunch of conclusions about opportunities that none of know the details of, or whether or not they existed at all.

Yep