GSW Model vs JAZZ Model

[Saint Cy of JFC]

From tonight at least it seems pretty clear that the GSW model seemed to have worked pretty well:

- gamble a year and tank (which only really works in a year with a loaded draft class)
- give young players (Thompson, Jenkins) plenty of experience against good players (at the cost of W's)
- get a decent player from draft (Barnes)

This is in complete contrast to the Jazz's model which is:

- tanking? What's that?
- play vets big minutes to give us a chance to win the game
- play young players limited minutes VS subs
- compete for the playoffs no matter what (even in a loaded draft year, even at the expense of giving young guys experience)
- main aim seems to be assembling a team which sells tickets no matter what

The results?

- Our young guys look lost against decent competition or when called upon to play big minutes
- Our young guys don't seem to have any 'go to move' due to the limited minutes they received last year
- We could have picked up a decent player in the draft
- With that pick, we may be could have traded for Harden together with another player if we wanted to

I don't know.. those are my thoughts.. what do you guys think?

I don't really feel like arguing with anyone, just wanted a friendly discussion on this.

Why do people act like Klay Thompson is some great young player? He shoots a ton, doesn't get to the foul line, and doesn't shoot a good FG%. He is good from deep, but that is really all he has on Hayward (and he isn't the TO machine that Hayward can be).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Besides Steph Curry, none of their young players they drafted are really contributing that much.

Honestly, I'm still dumb-founded they are doing this good. I honestly think it will eventually come to a screeching halt and they will drop out of the playoffs.

 

[bjunior]

Why do people act like Klay Thompson is some great young player? He shoots a ton, doesn't get to the foul line, and doesn't shoot a good FG%. He is good from deep, but that is really all he has on Hayward (and he isn't the TO machine that Hayward can be).

Burks is better or can be better all around. So if Burks played instead of Bell and Foye all this time, we could have more chances the last game.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Besides Steph Curry, none of their young players they drafted are really contributing that much.

Honestly, I'm still dumb-founded they are doing this good. I honestly think it will eventually come to a screeching halt and they will drop out of the playoffs.

Harrison Barnes has been pretty damn good. Klay Thompson is better than Hayward. And they've been winning all of these games without one of the best centers in the NBA (at least defensively, but you could argue one of the best in the league since the position sucks currently).

 

[NUMBERICA]

And Warrior Girls all day. Or all night.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Why do people act like Klay Thompson is some great young player? He shoots a ton, doesn't get to the foul line, and doesn't shoot a good FG%. He is good from deep, but that is really all he has on Hayward (and he isn't the TO machine that Hayward can be).

I'm not saying he's the best or even the greatest young player. All I'm saying is what GSW is doing is giving him the best possible chance to reach his potential.

Can't say the same thing about what the Jazz is doing with Burks.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not saying he's the best or even the greatest young player. All I'm saying is what GSW is doing is giving him the best possible chance to reach his potential.

Can't say the same thing about what the Jazz is doing with Burks.

Or they are teaching him to be a chucker and are stunting his potential.

 

[NAOS]

Then put it this way:

GS partially caters its offense around getting Thompson reps from spots at which he can succeed. They started doing so early in his career, and their efforts continue.

Hey, Hayward... you want the ball and a pick? Sure, we will give you a couple per game, but only after you show the ability to hit this curl thing and hit 3 pointers from any damn place after our Jefferball breaks down.

Questions?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Harrison Barnes has been pretty damn good. Klay Thompson is better than Hayward. And they've been winning all of these games without one of the best centers in the NBA (at least defensively, but you could argue one of the best in the league since the position sucks currently).

Barnes shoots 41% as a SF who is billed as an offensive player. He has shot 28% over the last 5 games. His PER is a whopping 10.3 for the season. I expect him to eventually get better, but he has been far from "pretty damn good" thus far.

Not convinced Thompson is better than Hayward, just more aggressive in shooting. He gets the to the FT line half as much and he plays about 10 more mpg.

Andrew Bogut will never be healthy, so he will never be a top center again.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Then put it this way:

GS partially caters its offense around getting Thompson reps from spots at which he can succeed. They started doing so early in his career, and their efforts continue.

Hey, Hayward... you want the ball and a pick? Sure, we will give you a couple per game, but only after you show the ability to hit this curl thing and hit 3 pointers from any damn place after our Jefferball breaks down.

Questions?

A lot of it has to do with Hayward being gun-shy and Thompson being the opposite. Hayward doesn't want to shoot 7 three pointers a game, Thompson does.

And if their offense is so "catered to getting Thompson reps from spots at which he can succeed" then why is a 40% FG shooter?

 

[UB]

You've got to be joking. The GSW model? Are you drunk? The GSW model used to be Jessica Alba. The Utah model is all about team basketball, hardnosed defense, and taking your lunchpail to work. Tanking two out of every three years is not a model to which I want my biracial children to aspire.


*UB's consecutive non-faggygaydick post streak is now up to 3.

 

[NAOS]

A lot of it has to do with Hayward being gun-shy and Thompson being the opposite. Hayward doesn't want to shoot 7 three pointers a game, Thompson does.

Popovich will angrily yank players from the game if they don't shoot an open three created by parker's drive or some PnR fallout, even if there are 15 seconds left on the clock. He puts players in their spots and doesn't take gun-shy for an answer.

It's safe to say Hayward would be less gun shy over there in SAS. We could make him less so by not shoe-horning him into a system that isn't that effective anyway.

And if their offense is so "catered to getting Thompson reps from spots at which he can succeed" then why is a 40% FG shooter?

Maybe he's still learning? Maybe he isn't that good? One thing is for sure though, the Warriors will know what he can do.





Then they'll **** everything up because they are the Warriors.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

A lot of it has to do with Hayward being gun-shy and Thompson being the opposite. Hayward doesn't want to shoot 7 three pointers a game, Thompson does.

Popovich will angrily yank players from the game if they don't shoot an open three created by parker's drive or some PnR fallout, even if there are 15 seconds left on the clock. He puts players in their spots and doesn't take gun-shy for an answer.

It's safe to say Hayward would be less gun shy over there in SAS. We could make him less so by not shoe-horning him into a system that isn't that effective anyway.



Maybe he's still learning? Maybe he isn't that good? One thing is for sure though, the Warriors will know what he can do.





Then they'll **** everything up because they are the Warriors.

At least we can agree to that.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

Ok based on a google image search San Fransisco models vs salt lake models it is not even close. San Fran kicks slc butt Twice over. Would up load pics but not very good at that.

Second I HATE mark Jackson and refuse to say he is a good coach. Anyone who says other wise should have their ******* tarred and feathers then have it ripped off. (ok that might be excessive)

Let's look at a comparison

Pg - Steph curry vs vet mo wlliams IMO the pg position is one of the most important positions on the team especially for the jazz. Curry, though injury prone, is tons better then more and curry is the heart of that team.

Sg- thompson vs burks great shooting vs slasher more exp vs less exp. we don't know what burks can do. Again Thompson is a good shooter.

Sf - Barnes vs Hayward this is one spot the jazz have drafted well. I like Barnes but I think Hayward is and will be a better pro. Hayward just needs to get more consistent.

Pf - Lee vs millsap great move now with lee. He is not the defender millsap is but great scorer and rebounder. Again better move.

C - bogut vs Jefferson goes to Jefferson because bogut hasnt played yet. But bogut lee is better than Jefferson millsap.

Bench Landry/jack/rush vs foye (I know he starts) favors kanter jazz bench is still all potential where gsw has a nice mix of talent. I know Marvin Williams is in the mix but to be honest he is just flat out a disappointment.

With that all said gsw has the 1 thing the jazz don't a good point guard. If the jazz had Steph curry they would be a top 4 team in the west. We have mo Williams and probably won't make the play offs.

 

[One Brow]

I guess what I'm saying is the GSW model can be summed up in 1 word: Flexibility.

What Golden State did wasn't unique or original. Teams do it several times a decade. It rarely works. We still don't know how it will work for Golden State, in the end. If you take a chance on rolling a die, and it comes up with the "6" you needed, that does not mean that rolling a die was the best play.

 

[One Brow]

All I'm saying is what GSW is doing is giving him the best possible chance to reach his potential.

Can't say the same thing about what the Jazz is doing with Burks.

You say this based on how many years as an NBA coach? What do you really know about developing professional NBA players?

 

[ONE LOVE]

You say this based on how many years as an NBA coach? What do you really know about developing professional NBA players?

LOL.. why don't we just restrict access to this forum to Ex and present NBA Scouts, Coaches, GM, players and their wives?

 

[One Brow]

LOL.. why don't we just restrict access to this forum to Ex and present NBA Scouts, Coaches, GM, players and their wives?

I don't come to this forum thinking I'm getting expert/inside information. I come to exchange my ignorant ideas with all my fellow ignoramuses. However, every now then one of us needs to be reminded that we don't really know what it takes to run an NBA offense, put together a good trade, or create a situation where any particular player can reach their best potential. Sometimes I'm that one, sometimes not.

 

[freakazoid]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1222760

 

[InGameStrategy]

I'm not saying he's the best or even the greatest young player. All I'm saying is what GSW is doing is giving him the best possible chance to reach his potential.

Can't say the same thing about what the Jazz is doing with Burks.

Klay Thompson played 600 minutes more in his first year (and twice as many minutes overall) than Burks has played so far in one and change. I reckon that an extra 500 or 600 minutes can be a big difference--especially for a big man (which would apply more to Kanter and Favors) as well as a semi-free spirit such as Burks who is still trying to find his shooting stroke consistently.

Thompson has had a good three-point percentage and free-throw percentage both years; can't say the same for Burks. But I don't think that's why TyCo isn't playing Burks.

Despite far fewer minutes ("only" about 1200), Burks is producing at about the same rate in most categories--except Burks is doing better in TOs and (fewer) PFs. But that's largely against the second string, in Burks' case.

I still think that Corbin should be giving Burks 8 or 10 minutes at point while Mo is out. At times, the relatively slow Tinsley and Watson have been burned. Tinsley did well down the stretch vs. the Clips, but more height seemed to slow down CPee3 slightly--and Burks athleticism would've helped on Crawford, too (although he was burning Hayward plenty).