Hardy Says Keyonte Has a Chance to be a Star

[jazznik]

No. They wanted examples about low fg% and efg% guys which I provided. Keyonte was inefficient and there is no argument about that.

That waa not a comp, just a list of guys who shot poorly as rookies and improved since then. Has absolutely nothing to do with "era".

Wouldnt expect you to undestand the difference though.

Well, you did wrote that "If you look at eFG% (Key had 48.2%), you can get a lot of stars/superstars who turned out to be pretty good shooters:". I thought it was a direct comparison.

Also, I want to stress one more time: the eFG% that you gave for the stars starting their NBA career in the late 90s does not indicate that they shot poorly as rookies and it was not an example of low eFG%. These players had the league-average shooting efficiency in their rookie seasons or even slightly better.

Also, what's the deal with the repeated personal attacks? Do you think it helps to facilitate discussion in any way? Because in my experience it wasn't the case but if you have a good argument that it actually does I am ready to learn and start flinging personal insults left and right. For the common good.

 

[HermanG]

Well, you did wrote that "If you look at eFG% (Key had 48.2%), you can get a lot of stars/superstars who turned out to be pretty good shooters:". I thought it was a direct comparison.

Also, I want to stress one more time: the eFG% that you gave for the stars starting their NBA career in the late 90s does not indicate that they shot poorly as rookies and it was not an example of low eFG%. These players had the league-average shooting efficiency in their rookie seasons or even slightly better.

Also, what's the deal with the repeated personal attacks? Do you think it helps to facilitate discussion in any way? Because in my experience it wasn't the case but if you have a good argument that it actually does I am ready to learn and start flinging personal insults left and right. For the common good.

There are no "repeated personal attacks". I said your theory about Key being used to tank was stupid. Thats not a personal attack, its just my opinion on your theory. The latter post was more personal, but you are just trying too hard to shame and bury a guy we all should hope turns out to be good.

Also its frustrating that you simply refuse to understand that there is no comparison, just proof of progress. Those guys I listed had their career highs in eFG% probably north of 10% better than their rookie seasons. So the whole point is to prove that rookie season alone is hardly deciding.

However lets try and verify your "every guy was league average or better" claim and see how they compare against their rookie year league averages:
Devin Booker -2.2%
Kevin Durant -4.6%
Kobe Bryant -1.6%
Trae Young -4.4%
Ray Allen +0.3%
Allen Iverson -2.5%
Steve Nash -0.4%

So there goes your credibility. I mean Nash and Allen were there (2 out 7, yay!), but Nash shot 44.1% in his 3rd year which was his first year as a starter and his glow up happened on year 4 after which he shot 54% or more almost every year for the rest of his career.

 

[str8line]

Key is very good at basketball. Crazy to dismiss the chance that he becomes very, very good. Becoming a star is a stretch. He's not even 21-years-old yet though so his maturity issues might be overblown.

 

[HermanG]

Key is very good at basketball, that is obvious. You're crazy if you dismiss the chance that he becomes very, very good. I think him becoming a star is a stretch. He's not even 21-years-old yet though so my perception of his maturity issues might be overblown.

He needs at least 2 major leaps to become a star. But maybe just 1 leap to become a decent NBA rotation guy.

 

[jazznik]

However lets try and verify your "every guy was league average or better" claim and see how they compare against their rookie year league averages:
Devin Booker -2.2%
Kevin Durant -4.6%
Kobe Bryant -1.6%
Trae Young -4.4%
Ray Allen +0.3%
Allen Iverson -2.5%
Steve Nash -0.4%

So there goes your credibility. I mean Nash and Allen were there (2 out 7, yay!), but Nash shot 44.1% in his 3rd year which was his first year as a starter and his glow up happened on year 4 after which he shot 54% or more almost every year for the rest of his career.

But I did not say "every guy was league average or better"? What I said is that for the players listed there who started their career in the late 90s their eFG in the rookie season was about the league average or even slightly better. Not everybody there started their career in the late 90s, so it does not apply to Trae Young, Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. So what you have is indeed league-average ot better shooting for the remaining with the only slight outlier being Allen Iverson, who even in his prime was often being labeled as inefficient for a star. Again, Keyonte's rookie shooting was more than 6% worse than the league average: he is simply in a (bad) tier of his own. I am pretty sure that there are examples of star shooters who started 6.5% below the league average but it would be a very, very rare instance.

 

[HermanG]

But I did not say "every guy was league average or better"? What I said is that for the players listed there who started their career in the late 90s their eFG in the rookie season was about the league average or even slightly better. Not everybody there started their career in the late 90s, so it does not apply to Trae Young, Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. So what you have is indeed league-average ot better shooting for the remaining with the only slight outlier being Allen Iverson, who even in his prime was often being labeled as inefficient for a star. Again, Keyonte's rookie shooting was more than 6% worse than the league average: he is simply in a (bad) tier of his own. I am pretty sure that there are examples of star shooters who started 6.5% below the league average but it would be a very, very rare instance.

Your fixation to trash Keyonte in a discussion about potential improvement is weird. I mean saying he was bad is one thing, but trying to paint a picture that he will remain bad is just pure hating.

Keyonte has the form, technique and clean release to go with great FT shooting consistency and accuracy. So the indications that he may turn out to be a good shooter are there, and it may be all about adapting to the range and getting more upper body strength.

You wanting to bury him is just sad.

 

[slc]

I like Keyonte. Hope he has a great career.
But not sure he will ever be as good as Donovan
Donovan was ready to play right out of the box and it was very obvious
Donovan already had an NBA body and he is maybe good enough to play MLB or NFL
That's how good he is

 

[fishonjazz]

Your fixation to trash Keyonte in a discussion about potential improvement is weird. I mean saying he was bad is one thing, but trying to paint a picture that he will remain bad is just pure hating.

Keyonte has the form, technique and clean release to go with great FT shooting consistency and accuracy. So the indications that he may turn out to be a good shooter are there, and it may be all about adapting to the range and getting more upper body strength.

You wanting to bury him is just sad.

This. I think he will end up being a good player. He has all the tools

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