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High Treason

KOC BEGONE said:
Or we could go to two wars against a created devil. That has been a positive hasn't it.
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Probably you're talking about Iraq and Iran, not WWI and WWII.

"Woodrow Wilson's War" where we got a huge campaign up to make the boys volunteer with the song "Over There", when most Americans before that publicity blitz were distinctly isolationist. . . . . and where in the end the war resolved nothing but cost millions of lives. And fired up our manufacturing engines into a great "military industrial complex"

But it didn't really get the League of Nations up and running like WWII galvanized action for the United Nations.

J Prescott Bush was investigated during the war for his trip to see Adolf Hitler and deliver a satchel of cash just before the Reichstag Fire enabled Hitler to suspend the old government and take absolute dictatorial power to himself. Yep, the grandpa of Dubya and the father of GP Bush, and these are folks Mitt has found such favor with.

During WWII the Rockefellers held major interests in German industries including the Pharmaceutical giants and IG Farben, who were involved in the death camps. Nice folks, right, Stoked????

And our military adventurism in spreading "democracy" as a virtual UN world cop has won us so many admirers and friends as a nation. And boy oh boy, our military production corporates have run up tabs in the trillions on the US public for doing all that. Yes, indeed, a real "positive", right stoked???

So to make sense of KOC, whether sincere or not, the "created devil" is a financially powerful and interested military production industry, the pride of world, right.
 
babe said:
Probably you're talking about Iraq and Iran, not WWI and WWII.

"Woodrow Wilson's War" where we got a huge campaign up to make the boys volunteer with the song "Over There", when most Americans before that publicity blitz were distinctly isolationist. . . . . and where in the end the war resolved nothing but cost millions of lives. And fired up our manufacturing engines into a great "military industrial complex"

But it didn't really get the League of Nations up and running like WWII galvanized action for the United Nations.

J Prescott Bush was investigated during the war for his trip to see Adolf Hitler and deliver a satchel of cash just before the Reichstag Fire enabled Hitler to suspend the old government and take absolute dictatorial power to himself. Yep, the grandpa of Dubya and the father of GP Bush, and these are folks Mitt has found such favor with.

During WWII the Rockefellers held major interests in German industries including the Pharmaceutical giants and IG Farben, who were involved in the death camps. Nice folks, right, Stoked????

And our military adventurism in spreading "democracy" as a virtual UN world cop has won us so many admirers and friends as a nation. And boy oh boy, our military production corporates have run up tabs in the trillions on the US public for doing all that. Yes, indeed, a real "positive", right stoked???

So to make sense of KOC, whether sincere or not, the "created devil" is a financially powerful and interested military production industry, the pride of world, right.
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I was talking Iran and Iraq. And that since WWII all of the money that we have been pouring into our military and having the most powerful military in the world. For what threat the big "Red" scare wasn't going to keep people up at night anymore. So, I think we knew about muslim extremists and we did nothing to stop 911. Don't you see how it galvanize everyone when Bush's numbers and the economy were starting to tank. He was a man on fire he was able to do what he wanted after Sept. 11
 
In getting back to the original point of the thread, I agree with the person in the article who wanted to know if the US tried to get the doctor out of Pakistan and how the his name got out. Because in a situation like this, I would think the US would try to help him out BEFORE he got convicted of high treason rather than condemn the conviction after the fact.
 
Stoked said:
Bam!

I personally would give Babe a little more credit than that. But I quite enjoyed that post PKM.
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Oh I know what seems rational and sensible. . . . from more than one common set of assumptions or beliefs and from more than one common set of information points. . . . and how people with belief committments will process it all.

If you're too busy, or better occupied, or have no need to play mind games with different views, please move along. Nothing's happening here, folks. . . . just move right on.

Some of the better players in here understand what I do, at my age, amounts to exercises on the "use it or lose it" principle.

But I stand for human rights. I have been in Amnesty International. If that's not a priority with you I just hope you won't need my writing letters to your government.
 
I think KOC and babe are nuttier than squirrell ****, but at least they're entertaining. At the very worst, I at least read with an open mind and occasionally go, "Hmmmm..."
 
candrew said:
yes who was then released without any attempt at prosecution because it's readily obvious she's a wackadoo.
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That's never been the way government does business. She was thrown in the prison and denied all of her civil liberties just to try to shut her up. And it backfired. If they kept her in there it would have kept making the HSA/powergrab look worse and worse. At least out on the street, and without a significant way to tell her story, nobody is going to listen anyone.

If she was wackadoo they could have kept her in a psych ward and drugged up stupid. Our government never lets wackos out on the street without their meds. Problem is, the psychiatrists couldn't or wouldn't make that case for the government with the obvious facts she had and proof of what she said.

People like you who just want to diss her story on that basis are completely baseless. You have no fact to back up your allegation but your jeers and hate.
 
TroutBum said:
I think KOC and babe are nuttier than squirrell ****, but at least they're entertaining. At the very worst, I at least read with an open mind and occasionally go, "Hmmmm..."
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read it again when the drugs' effect wear off a little.

The problem with swimming with the current all the time is it's all downhill and the water gets muddier and saltier, and the thought process just gets to be too much work.
 
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babe said:
read it again with the drugs' effect wear off a little.

The problem with swimming with the current all the time is it's all downhill and the water gets muddier and saltier, and the though process just gets to be too much work.
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I'm not arguing nor trying to be persuasive toward any point here ..

Having said that, those that spend too much of their lives swimming against the current (borrowing your analogy) often times seem to find a need to justify the time they've spent. Bad example, I know, but I have a couple of friends that have spent nearly 30 years trying to prove the existence of aliens/UFOs. I don't really take a position as to whether extra-terrestrial life exists, but I choose to not spend MY life chasing around the country and world to find proof. More power to them for doing it, in fact.

Problem is, after 30 years of doing it, they are constantly seeing things that aren't there and crop circles, for example, are something the government does to throw the public off the trail in an attempt to have 'us' ignore the 'real signs' we're being visited.

I see most conspiracy theories as containing extreme reaching. That's fine. I just warn, I guess, against spending so much time, that life goes by and too many waste time on something that either isn't real or can't be proven. Chase it, try to prove these things, but use caution in the analysis of your findings.

That's all. Much respect to all of you and what you're into.
 
babe said:
That's never been the way government does business. She was thrown in the prison and denied all of her civil liberties just to try to shut her up. And it backfired. If they kept her in there it would have kept making the HSA/powergrab look worse and worse. At least out on the street, and without a significant way to tell her story, nobody is going to listen anyone.

If she was wackadoo they could have kept her in a psych ward and drugged up stupid. Our government never lets wackos out on the street without their meds. Problem is, the psychiatrists couldn't or wouldn't make that case for the government with the obvious facts she had and proof of what she said.

People like you who just want to diss her story on that basis are completely baseless. You have no fact to back up your allegation but your jeers and hate.
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Look, if you want to talk about her detainment by the US Government and the allegation that they attempted to frame her as a traitor - well I don't know about that; but I'm willing to listen.

What I do know is Susan Lindauer was deemed mentally unstable by a court appointed doctor. And whenever she opens her mouth she certainly doesn't help her own cause. So if you want to hitch your conspiracy bandwagon to her - that's fine. But you got to do better than that if you want to convince me.
 
candrew said:
Obviously you've never walked through the Times Square Section of New York City.
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I'd take that even further and say dealt with the general public in any way. Same bat **** crazy people out there.
 
candrew said:
Obviously you've never walked through the Times Square Section of New York City.
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I can't deny this conclusion, but Stoked takes it too far. I've seen some things that could wow a lot of people for their craziness. I've been to LDS singles' dances, though about two decades ago, and been in LDS singles' wards.

And been in positions where it was some leadership responsibility to try to sort through some of the problems. . . .

I've already told this forum about my room mate for a while at college who kept his red hair long, wore a ring in his nose, and freely described how he was the bride-in-waiting for the coming of Jesus. His white dress didn't fill out nicely enough, and it was a problem how to convince him I wasn't really Jesus.

One fairly smart girl from an LDS dance had a different story. She was on her meds when I met her, and she was a competent computer code writer, producing programs for Novell. But when I questioned the necessity for her meds, she told me about how sometimes she couldn't get out of bed because of being frozen, more or less, immobile in her bed for days. On other occasions she was fairly giddy with notions, she said, of being a bride for Jesus, and once danced naked on the roof of her car in a mall parking lot.

I could mine the mind and experience of my MSW sister-in-law for more tales of the pathologically troubled souls among us, but suffice it to say I think I know what "crazy" really can be.

So in fairness to your response about the need for actual facts on the Susan Lindauer diagnosis by one government or court appointed professional, and other possible facts about her story, I'll confess this is the first time I've even heard of her, and look up what I can about the case. If I find anything substantial bearing in any way on the subject, I'll resume my comments on her on that basis. Otherwise I just have to say I don't really know enough to carry this forward with an informed basis for my comments.

The guy who introduced her at the meeting had more of an unbalanced manner about him than she did, but then from the perspective of my experience visiting people in jails who were being held for no clear reason, and others who have had their rights irrationally trampled by authority, I will say anyone whose mental stability isn't disturbed by such experience is clinically abnormal. Meaning, for those of you who are enjoying some mind-altering pastimes, "above the normal" on the bell curve of capacity for maintaining cognitive equilibrium and happy adjustment to their experiences.
 
No I do not. I do not think you meant the comment that Candrew quoted in a serious manner.

I am simply saying that there are some bat **** crazy people out there. You read to much into what I said.

I never ever mentioned Susan whatsherface. Ever.
 
Here's something for Candrew from the New York Times magazine:

One conversation John had with his sister in the summer of 2001 stuck in his mind for a different reason. ''So she goes, 'Listen, the gulf war isn't over,''' he told me over dinner at a sushi place on the Sunset Strip. '''There are plans in effect right now. They will be raining down on us from the skies.''' His sister told him that Lower Manhattan would be destroyed. ''And I was like, Yeah, whatever,'' he continued. When he woke up six weeks later to the news that two planes had crashed into the twin towers, and watched as ash settled on the window ledge of his sublet in Brooklyn, he had a dislocating sense of having his reality replaced by Susan's strange world -- an experience he would have again when he learned that his sister had been arrested by the F.B.I.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/...mission-to-baghdad.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

This is a pretty good article that deals with some of the craziness some might see in Susan Lindauer, but the key thing I want to point out is that her brother actually confirms her story that there were some people in the government who knew some specifics beforehand about 9/11. She told him about it before it happened.
 
Stoked said:
No I do not. I do not think you meant the comment that Candrew quoted in a serious manner.

I am simply saying that there are some bat **** crazy people out there. You read to much into what I said.

I never ever mentioned Susan whatsherface. Ever.
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OK. You have me on that one, perhaps. When I see something that requires me to think some more, I am all about doing that. . . . .
 
babe said:
OK. You have me on that one, perhaps. When I see something that requires me to think some more, I am all about doing that. . . . .
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Think away my friend, I will never encourage otherwise. Mine was just a general comment about crazy people. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
PKM said:
I'm not arguing nor trying to be persuasive toward any point here ..

Having said that, those that spend too much of their lives swimming against the current (borrowing your analogy) often times seem to find a need to justify the time they've spent. Bad example, I know, but I have a couple of friends that have spent nearly 30 years trying to prove the existence of aliens/UFOs. I don't really take a position as to whether extra-terrestrial life exists, but I choose to not spend MY life chasing around the country and world to find proof. More power to them for doing it, in fact.

Problem is, after 30 years of doing it, they are constantly seeing things that aren't there and crop circles, for example, are something the government does to throw the public off the trail in an attempt to have 'us' ignore the 'real signs' we're being visited.

I see most conspiracy theories as containing extreme reaching. That's fine. I just warn, I guess, against spending so much time, that life goes by and too many waste time on something that either isn't real or can't be proven. Chase it, try to prove these things, but use caution in the analysis of your findings.

That's all. Much respect to all of you and what you're into.
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This response is well said, and useful as a reference point for what "normal" can be. And a necessary thing most of us just have to do when dealing with others who are "out there" somehow.
 
babe said:
This response is well said, and useful as a reference point for what "normal" can be. And a necessary thing most of us just have to do when dealing with others who are "out there" somehow.
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I like to poke them with sticks and see what happens.
 
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