Hillary Clinton says Tulsi Gabbard is a 'Russian asset' groomed to ensure Trump reelection

[fishonjazz]

I don’t think so. I think Bernie loses and loses bigly. A Jewish Democratic socialist is not winning Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin. That’s a Trump win. And he most likely loses Pennsylvania and Michigan, resulting in a Trump blowout.

I disagree. Trump didn't lose az, ga, and wisconsin because the voters loved biden. Trump lost those states because the voters were sick of/hated trump. They would still have been sick of trump if bernie was the candidate. Same with penn and michigan.

 

[fishonjazz]

@Gameface essentially, yes a younger, more liberal, more diverse, candidate can win the primary. The question lies on if they can win the general? The general is where things become difficult as general election voters tend to be older and more moderate ideologically than democratic base voters in the primary.

This will be especially troublesome since Democrats desperately need to win rust belt states, and those states are trending red.

So the question is, do you go with a younger candidate who might be more liberal ideologically? Who might be gay, a woman, or black? Because they might turn off some general election voters. Sure, you might juice your base but no one cares if you win the popular vote by millions fail to reach 270 EC votes.
This worked for Obama but didn’t work for Gore, Dukakis, or Mondale.

-OR-
​

Do you go for someone old and moderate and hope that you get 270 by appealing to moderates but risk depleting your base’s turnout?
This worked for Bill Clinton and Joe Biden but didn’t work for Hillary Clinton. And had Bernie been the nominee in 2020, I think it would’ve resulted in a Trump re-election. Way too many general elections voters would’ve been spooked by democratic socialism.

Republicans don’t have to worry about this because they’ve given up going for the popular vote. They’ve found that they can juice their base and their base is good enough to win enough EC votes. The EC actually favors rural less populated states. That’s why Bush won in 2000, why trump won in 2016, and why trump was close to winning despite losing the popular vote by millions in 2020.

So we probably will see younger candidates in 2024 if Biden doesn’t run. It’d be hard to find older candidates! But there’s a real dilemma facing Dems since a candidate might be extremely popular for them in the primary and might be more popular nation wide, might be completely unpopular in key EC states for the general and cost them the White House.

I think you stop worrying so much about winning and provide a good candidate rather than an old out of touch imbecile. If you lose so be it. I dont think you lose though. I think enough people actually want a good candidate to vote for after these last elections of total crap.

 

[Gameface]

I'd like to see info on who came out to vote in 2020. I think with Trump in the race again you get a lot of voters invested in beating him because he invokes such complete disgust in a majority of this country, EC be damned.

If Trump runs and makes it out of the primary the democrats have to have someone that the people who hate hate hate Trump can get at least a little bit excited about. Biden isn't it, not in 2024. The whole Biden is a senile old man thing has traction because, well, Biden isn't spry or witty or charming at this point. He's gonna take massive blame for inflation that was set into motion well before he was elected. Apparently Putin starting an ill-advised, floundering war in Ukraine is because (pardon me while I try to type this without laughing) Trump was keeping Putin in check (apparently by giving him so many BJs that Putin didn't have time for anything else but BJs from Trump). Regardless, Biden is going to be a weaker candidate in 2024, even though incumbents typically have a very strong advantage. This new line about Biden being some sort of war-hawk or Democrats wanting Russian blood is absurd and I don't think many outside of Trump fart sniffers are buying it.

And for the ****ing record, I said before specific sanctions were announced that I DO NOT SUPPORT SANCTIONS. For one, sanctions are an act of war, so if you want to engage in war do it with a modicum of honor and dignity. Don't do it by starving out the most vulnerable people in a society, which is what sanctions do. Sanctions also have a **** track record for stopping bad behavior, which we are seeing right now as the war in Ukraine continues. I do not have ill will towards the Russian people. Putin is the problem, 100%. Putin didn't do this for justifiable reasons or because the U.S. was bad. Putin is doing this because he believes that Ukraine is part of Russia, a very fundamental part of Russia.

 

[Red]

I really hate the idea of political dynasties, like with a Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and then they tried again with Jeb Bush, Bill Clinton then eventually Hillary Clinton. I mean it's not quite as bad as this push for celebrity candidates like Oprah and a few others but I still don't like it.

I wish we had a better way of finding good Presidential candidates. Ideally there would be scholars and philosophers and retired military leadership, but what we have are lawyers turned politicians for the most part, followed by celebrities and reality TV personalities.

Ugh.

I hear you, and I don’t disagree at all. I’m just looking for a candidate that can beat Trump. Biden did it once, I’m not at all confident of a second time.

 

[Red]

I'd like to see info on who came out to vote in 2020. I think with Trump in the race again you get a lot of voters invested in beating him because he invokes such complete disgust in a majority of this country, EC be damned.

If Trump runs and makes it out of the primary the democrats have to have someone that the people who hate hate hate Trump can get at least a little bit excited about. Biden isn't it, not in 2024. The whole Biden is a senile old man thing has traction because, well, Biden isn't spry or witty or charming at this point. He's gonna take massive blame for inflation that was set into motion well before he was elected. Apparently Putin starting an ill-advised, floundering war in Ukraine is because (pardon me while I try to type this without laughing) Trump was keeping Putin in check (apparently by giving him so many BJs that Putin didn't have time for anything else but BJs from Trump). Regardless, Biden is going to be a weaker candidate in 2024, even though incumbents typically have a very strong advantage. This new line about Biden being some sort of war-hawk or Democrats wanting Russian blood is absurd and I don't think many outside of Trump fart sniffers are buying it.

And for the ****ing record, I said before specific sanctions were announced that I DO NOT SUPPORT SANCTIONS. For one, sanctions are an act of war, so if you want to engage in war do it with a modicum of honor and dignity. Don't do it by starving out the most vulnerable people in a society, which is what sanctions do. Sanctions also have a **** track record for stopping bad behavior, which we are seeing right now as the war in Ukraine continues. I do not have ill will towards the Russian people. Putin is the problem, 100%. Putin didn't do this for justifiable reasons or because the U.S. was bad. Putin is doing this because he believes that Ukraine is part of Russia, a very fundamental part of Russia.

If I were Putin, why would I invade Ukraine while a president Trump was bashing NATO, weakening NATO merely by bad mouthing it, and threatening to abandon our membership in NATO? Not everyday Putin is going to have such an ally in the White House. Let Trump weaken it from within, it’s too good to be true. Don’t screw that up by attacking Ukraine just at that point. It would also not surprise me if, during meeting(s) where Trump met Putin without an American translator that Putin described, “strongman to strongman”, the only equation Trump respects and yearned for himself, what Ukraine meant to him, and how little it should mean to the United States.

 

[The Thriller]

Every one of my questions lol. I asked you one question. I still dont know your answer.

I’ve answered your question, you just didn’t understand the answer.

Then think of it this way, Romney might’ve beaten Biden in 2020. He might have a great chance at winning the general in 2024. But he won’t ever win the nomination to compete in the general because he isn’t extreme enough for his own party.

It’s easy to say, “find a good candidate” when you ignore that there are two elections, the primary and general. And the winner of the general isn’t the most popular candidate, but the one who can win 270 electoral college votes.

 

[The Thriller]

I think you stop worrying so much about winning and provide a good candidate rather than an old out of touch imbecile. If you lose so be it. I dont think you lose though. I think enough people actually want a good candidate to vote for after these last elections of total crap.

Win what? The general? Or the primary?

I don’t disagree that the goal should be “find a good candidate.” But that good candidate might be wildly popular in major population centers but unpopular in rural areas. They might be really popular in the party’s primary but bad in the general (or vice versa). Romney, Kinzinger, or Liz Cheney for example would come near dead last in the GOP primary (if they ran) but compete well in the general. Tucker, if he were to run and Trump not, might be the most popular candidate in GOP primary history but one would hope he’d be terrible for the general…

So yes, finding a good candidate is important. But it’s much easier said than done. And even harder to figure out since the EC is what decides winners, not the popular vote.

 

[The Thriller]

I'd like to see info on who came out to vote in 2020. I think with Trump in the race again you get a lot of voters invested in beating him because he invokes such complete disgust in a majority of this country, EC be damned.

If Trump runs and makes it out of the primary the democrats have to have someone that the people who hate hate hate Trump can get at least a little bit excited about. Biden isn't it, not in 2024. The whole Biden is a senile old man thing has traction because, well, Biden isn't spry or witty or charming at this point. He's gonna take massive blame for inflation that was set into motion well before he was elected. Apparently Putin starting an ill-advised, floundering war in Ukraine is because (pardon me while I try to type this without laughing) Trump was keeping Putin in check (apparently by giving him so many BJs that Putin didn't have time for anything else but BJs from Trump). Regardless, Biden is going to be a weaker candidate in 2024, even though incumbents typically have a very strong advantage. This new line about Biden being some sort of war-hawk or Democrats wanting Russian blood is absurd and I don't think many outside of Trump fart sniffers are buying it.

And for the ****ing record, I said before specific sanctions were announced that I DO NOT SUPPORT SANCTIONS. For one, sanctions are an act of war, so if you want to engage in war do it with a modicum of honor and dignity. Don't do it by starving out the most vulnerable people in a society, which is what sanctions do. Sanctions also have a **** track record for stopping bad behavior, which we are seeing right now as the war in Ukraine continues. I do not have ill will towards the Russian people. Putin is the problem, 100%. Putin didn't do this for justifiable reasons or because the U.S. was bad. Putin is doing this because he believes that Ukraine is part of Russia, a very fundamental part of Russia.

Trump is a unique threat to our constitutional order. This is not just a policy disagreement. He’s made it clear that he wants to detach laws and bend the federal order to his will. He’s a wannabe dictator.

So for me, voters can bitch about Biden. But anyone who cares about having a democracy 4 years down the road, 40, or 400 need to vote against Trump and for whoever the Democratic candidate will be in 2024. Otherwise, we’re electing someone to destroy our democracy.

 

[The Thriller]

I'd like to see info on who came out to vote in 2020. I think with Trump in the race again you get a lot of voters invested in beating him because he invokes such complete disgust in a majority of this country, EC be damned.

If Trump runs and makes it out of the primary the democrats have to have someone that the people who hate hate hate Trump can get at least a little bit excited about. Biden isn't it, not in 2024. The whole Biden is a senile old man thing has traction because, well, Biden isn't spry or witty or charming at this point. He's gonna take massive blame for inflation that was set into motion well before he was elected. Apparently Putin starting an ill-advised, floundering war in Ukraine is because (pardon me while I try to type this without laughing) Trump was keeping Putin in check (apparently by giving him so many BJs that Putin didn't have time for anything else but BJs from Trump). Regardless, Biden is going to be a weaker candidate in 2024, even though incumbents typically have a very strong advantage. This new line about Biden being some sort of war-hawk or Democrats wanting Russian blood is absurd and I don't think many outside of Trump fart sniffers are buying it.

And for the ****ing record, I said before specific sanctions were announced that I DO NOT SUPPORT SANCTIONS. For one, sanctions are an act of war, so if you want to engage in war do it with a modicum of honor and dignity. Don't do it by starving out the most vulnerable people in a society, which is what sanctions do. Sanctions also have a **** track record for stopping bad behavior, which we are seeing right now as the war in Ukraine continues. I do not have ill will towards the Russian people. Putin is the problem, 100%. Putin didn't do this for justifiable reasons or because the U.S. was bad. Putin is doing this because he believes that Ukraine is part of Russia, a very fundamental part of Russia.

Pew is pretty good source. I’m pasting some of the key pts but if you click on the link you can see breakdowns on voter demographics.

Here are some of the other key findings from the analysis:

• Biden made gains with suburban voters. In 2020, Biden improved upon Clinton’s vote share with suburban voters: 45% supported Clinton in 2016 vs. 54% for Biden in 2020. This shift was also seen among White voters: Trump narrowly won White suburban voters by 4 points in 2020 (51%-47%); he carried this group by 16 points in 2016 (54%-38%). At the same time, Trump grew his vote share among rural voters. In 2016, Trump won 59% of rural voters, a number that rose to 65% in 2020.
• Trump made gains among Hispanic voters. Even as Biden held on to a majority of Hispanic voters in 2020, Trump made gains among this group overall. There was a wide educational divide among Hispanic voters: Trump did substantially better with those without a college degree than college-educated Hispanic voters (41% vs. 30%).
• Apart from the small shift among Hispanic voters, Joe Biden’s electoral coalition looked much like Hillary Clinton’s, with Black, Hispanic and Asian voters and those of other races casting about four-in-ten of his votes. Black voters remained overwhelmingly loyal to the Democratic Party, voting 92%-8% for Biden.
• Biden made gains with men, while Trump improved among women, narrowing the gender gap. The gender gap in the 2020 election was narrower than it had been in 2016, both because of gains that Biden made among men and because of gains Trump made among women. In 2020, men were almost evenly divided between Trump and Biden, unlike in 2016 when Trump won men by 11 points. Trump won a slightly larger share of women’s votes in 2020 than in 2016 (44% vs. 39%), while Biden’s share among women was nearly identical to Clinton’s (55% vs. 54%).
• Biden improved over Clinton among White non-college voters. White voters without a college degree were critical to Trump’s victory in 2016, when he won the group by 64% to 28%. In 2018, Democrats were able to gain some ground with these voters, earning 36% of the White, non-college vote to Republicans’ 61%. In 2020, Biden roughly maintained Democrats’ 2018 share among the group, improving upon Clinton’s 2016 performance by receiving the votes of 33%. But Trump’s share of the vote among this group – who represented 42% of the total electorate this year – was nearly identical to his vote share in 2016 (65%).
• Biden grew his support with some religious groups while Trump held his ground. Both Trump and Biden held onto or gained with large groups within their respective religious coalitions. Trump’s strong support among White evangelical Protestants ticked up (77% in 2016, 84% in 2020) while Biden got more support among atheists and agnostics than did Clinton in 2016.
• After decades of constituting the majority of voters, Baby Boomers and members of the Silent Generation made up less than half of the electorate in 2020 (44%), falling below the 52% they constituted in both 2016 and 2018. Gen Z and Millennial voters favored Biden over Trump by margins of about 20 points, while Gen Xers and Boomers were more evenly split in their preferences. Gen Z voters, those ages 23 and younger, constituted 8% of the electorate, while Millennials and Gen Xers made up 47% of 2020 voters.1
• A record number of voters reported casting ballots by mail in 2020 – including many voters who said it was their first time doing so. Nearly half of 2020 voters (46%) said they had voted by mail or absentee, and among that group, about four-in-ten said it was their first time casting a ballot this way. Hispanic and White voters were more likely than Black voters to have cast absentee or mail ballots, while Black voters were more likely than White or Hispanic voters to have voted early in person. Urban and suburban voters were also more likely than rural voters to have voted absentee or by mail ballot.

Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory

A new analysis of 2020 validated voters examines change and continuity in the electorate, both of which contributed to Joe Biden’s victory. It looks at how new voters and voters who turned out in either 2016, 2018 or both voted in the 2020 presidential election, and offers a detailed portrait of...

www.pewresearch.org

This focuses more on key EC college states

Exit polls show both familiar and new voting blocs sealed Biden’s win | Brookings

While whites continue to favor the Republican candidate—as they have in every presidential election since 1968—it is notable that this margin has been reduced from 20% to 15% nationally.

www.brookings.edu

 

[The Thriller]

If I were Putin, why would I invade Ukraine while a president Trump was bashing NATO, weakening NATO merely by bad mouthing it, and threatening to abandon our membership in NATO? Not everyday Putin is going to have such an ally in the White House. Let Trump weaken it from within, it’s too good to be true. Don’t screw that up by attacking Ukraine just at that point. It would also not surprise me if, during meeting(s) where Trump met Putin without an American translator that Putin described, “strongman to strongman”, the only equation Trump respects and yearned for himself, what Ukraine meant to him, and how little it should mean to the United States.

John Boehner once said, “never shoot your opponent when he’s trying to commit suicide.”

Putin didn’t need to invade Ukraine with Trump trashing it and weakening NATO. Bolton believes Trump would’ve left NATO in a 2nd term. So why invade in the 1st term if you can wait for Trump to do your dirty work for you?

John Bolton Says 'Putin Was Waiting' For Trump To Withdraw From NATO In Second Term

"In a second Trump term, I think he may well have withdrawn from NATO. And I think Putin was waiting for that," Bolton said.

www.huffpost.com

And when you think about it, Putin just needs to wait for Republicans to retake congress later this year. We won’t be passing additional military aid once Speaker Jordan or MTG takes the gavel. If Putin can hold out until 2025 when/if Trump retakes office and gets rid of sanctions? He’ll easily be able to retake the baltics.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trump is a unique threat to our constitutional order. This is not just a policy disagreement. He’s made it clear that he wants to detach laws and bend the federal order to his will. He’s a wannabe dictator.

So for me, voters can bitch about Biden. But anyone who cares about having a democracy 4 years down the road, 40, or 400 need to vote against Trump and for whoever the Democratic candidate will be in 2024. Otherwise, we’re electing someone to destroy our democracy.

I will definitely vote for whoever isnt trump. I really hope it isnt biden though.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

I'd like to see info on who came out to vote in 2020. I think with Trump in the race again you get a lot of voters invested in beating him because he invokes such complete disgust in a majority of this country, EC be damned.

If Trump runs and makes it out of the primary the democrats have to have someone that the people who hate hate hate Trump can get at least a little bit excited about. Biden isn't it, not in 2024. The whole Biden is a senile old man thing has traction because, well, Biden isn't spry or witty or charming at this point. He's gonna take massive blame for inflation that was set into motion well before he was elected. Apparently Putin starting an ill-advised, floundering war in Ukraine is because (pardon me while I try to type this without laughing) Trump was keeping Putin in check (apparently by giving him so many BJs that Putin didn't have time for anything else but BJs from Trump). Regardless, Biden is going to be a weaker candidate in 2024, even though incumbents typically have a very strong advantage. This new line about Biden being some sort of war-hawk or Democrats wanting Russian blood is absurd and I don't think many outside of Trump fart sniffers are buying it.

And for the ****ing record, I said before specific sanctions were announced that I DO NOT SUPPORT SANCTIONS. For one, sanctions are an act of war, so if you want to engage in war do it with a modicum of honor and dignity. Don't do it by starving out the most vulnerable people in a society, which is what sanctions do. Sanctions also have a **** track record for stopping bad behavior, which we are seeing right now as the war in Ukraine continues. I do not have ill will towards the Russian people. Putin is the problem, 100%. Putin didn't do this for justifiable reasons or because the U.S. was bad. Putin is doing this because he believes that Ukraine is part of Russia, a very fundamental part of Russia.

Agreed.

I still like the idea of incentivizing the Russian military to defect. I think that is an under-rated idea.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tulsi Gabbard And Tucker Carlson Featured In Stunning Exchange On Russian TV

A state TV host said the former presidential candidate was a Russian agent, according to Russian media analyst Julia Davis.

www.yahoo.com

Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[The Thriller]

hmmm

 

[The Thriller]

Hillary was right… about everything!


View: https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1558252162869755908?s=21&t=mlBiR5HB5dKYtyu4yC80dQ


I know no one liked a know it all woman. But she was ****ing right!

 

[The Thriller]

Huh. Who called this years ago? Sounds like that email lady was right… again.


View: https://twitter.com/romc/status/1576240036801961984?s=46&t=NdpNHc1hnWOqd_5FJ3uUdA

 

[The Thriller]

What a shock /s

It’s almost like Putin wanted Trump to win really badly in 2016 and 2020 cuz that would lead to a weakened America. But nah. That couldn’t be it! Right??? LOL


View: https://twitter.com/kaivanshroff/status/1663625791379329027?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw

 

[One Brow]

What a shock /s

It’s almost like Putin wanted Trump to win really badly in 2016 and 2020 cuz that would lead to a weakened America. But nah. That couldn’t be it! Right??? LOL


View: https://twitter.com/kaivanshroff/status/1663625791379329027?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw

I don't recall Tara Reade's story being "debunked". It's an outlier from the creepy-but-not-assault-stuff Biden has been doing, so unconfirmed.

 

[The Thriller]

I don't recall Tara Reade's story being "debunked". It's an outlier from the creepy-but-not-assault-stuff Biden has been doing, so unconfirmed.

Her story had more holes in it than Swiss cheese and she changed it more times than I can remember. And she just so brought it up in the 2020 election when Russia needed Trump to win. Suspicious to say the least

 

[SteakNEggs]

Lol dumbest thread in history right outside of Thrillers Walker Kessler should be benched thread. I won't let you forget you owe me $100. As usual I school you and you disappear knowing it'll go away.


It wasn't debunked btw. Her story dates back to when it actually happened and there is actual conversations about it at the time.