Hollinger's Thoughts on what it take to be a contender

[Qman]

John Hollinger (Insider) compares the team building models of the Thunder and Heat and finds that having the very best players is a pretty solid strategy, no matter how you get them. He also unearths this nugget: "Each of the past 33 champions either had an overwhelming individual talent or an overwhelming defense. This is vitally important for the league's other 28 teams, because they can't match the star power of the Heat and Thunder. A few teams have a chance on the superstar front. Whomever gets Dwight Howard is certainly in the discussion; the Clippers might also match the front-line talent of the Heat and Thunder but, alas, are the Clippers. Chicago may be as well, depending on how Derrick Rose recovers. Minnesota? Perhaps. And maybe New Orleans in a couple of years. Nonetheless, the biggest threat to the Miami-OKC hegemony is the dreaded 'bunch of good players' model that has so rarely yielded championships. Right now the main threats to Miami and Oklahoma City all operate on that model. Going forward, four of the teams best positioned to challenge them are Indiana, Utah, Memphis and Denver. Memo to teams like those that have a great nucleus but lack a transcendent superstar and are never getting one: You have to lead the league in defense. Have to. Otherwise, you're guaranteed to be outgunned."

https://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/45465/tuesday-bullets-253

Do you agree that we don't have and won't have a great scorer? I think Hollinger is right. We are going to have to get it done with defense.

Favors and Kanter could become the building blocks of the great defense. Hayward is a good defender but not a great one. If Burks got stronger he could be a very good defender. It also means we need to shed our subpar defenders.

But how do we get there?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I completely agree with Hollinger. For us to contend it has to be defense first since we don't have a guy who is going to get to the foul line a guaranteed 10 times per game and is going to score at least 30 ppg.

 

[Former Member]

You can't really argue with the results of the last thirty years. I'm confident in Kanter and Favors to play outstanding D, but I'm not sure about Burks/Hayward (Hayward makes a great play every now and then, however, I'm not sure about him being a shut down kinda guy). Do you think our young guns have the tools to play shut down D?

 

[orangello]

https://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/45465/tuesday-bullets-253

Do you agree that we don't have and won't have a great scorer? I think Hollinger is right. We are going to have to get it done with defense.

Favors and Kanter could become the building blocks of the great defense. Hayward is a good defender but not a great one. If Burks got stronger he could be a very good defender. It also means we need to shed our subpar defenders.

But how do we get there?

I am glad that this was brought up. I think that this team has the chance to be a top 5 team defensively. They have the right personal with different skill sets to be a headache is defense becomes a priority (trade Jefferson and you are already mostly there).

With that being said, the fact that the Jazz could be looking at $30 million + in cap money next off season means that the Jazz could add that go to scorer. If they were able to do that then watch out.

One underrated aspect of what the Thunder did to build their teams was trading one of the young players. They traded Jeff Green. He is a solid player. He could score and even defend at a decent level. The problem that they had was a true front line that was imposing to other teams. OKC could score but they didn't have the defense to match. Then they made a trade to get Perkins. He rarely scores but he throws his weight around down low. Ibaka and Perkins are a good combination together.

The reason that I bring that up is because I have to wonder if the Jazz would trade one or the young guys in order to add the next dimension to this team. We need a go to scorer that can keep the ball moving if needed. Jefferson is a scorer but he also makes the other 4 players on the court almost meaningless when he tries to shoot over 3 defenders. I wonder who of the core the KOC would consider moving if it meant that the Jazz could add a Harden or someone that can score when this team needs it.

That question could be a complete waste of time. Who knows, maybe Favors, Kanter, Burks and Hayward all come back and score more efficiently and suddenly the need for a primary scorer goes out the window.

Those are just my thoughts.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No reason to trade or get rid of Burks/Hayward. Even if they aren't the greatest defenders it doesn't really matter. No wings can truly shutdown the Superstars, so it's better to have wings who can score and play respectful defense, which I think Hayward and Burks can. I think the only thing we really need to add his 3pt shooting. If we could get a top 10 PG, that would be nice, but I don't really think it's that urgent. Just get some good shooters.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I am glad that this was brought up. I think that this team has the chance to be a top 5 team defensively. They have the right personal with different skill sets to be a headache is defense becomes a priority (trade Jefferson and you are already mostly there).

With that being said, the fact that the Jazz could be looking at $30 million + in cap money next off season means that the Jazz could add that go to scorer. If they were able to do that then watch out.

One underrated aspect of what the Thunder did to build their teams was trading one of the young players. They traded Jeff Green. He is a solid player. He could score and even defend at a decent level. The problem that they had was a true front line that was imposing to other teams. OKC could score but they didn't have the defense to match. Then they made a trade to get Perkins. He rarely scores but he throws his weight around down low. Ibaka and Perkins are a good combination together.

The reason that I bring that up is because I have to wonder if the Jazz would trade one or the young guys in order to add the next dimension to this team. We need a go to scorer that can keep the ball moving if needed. Jefferson is a scorer but he also makes the other 4 players on the court almost meaningless when he tries to shoot over 3 defenders. I wonder who of the core the KOC would consider moving if it meant that the Jazz could add a Harden or someone that can score when this team needs it.

That question could be a complete waste of time. Who knows, maybe Favors, Kanter, Burks and Hayward all come back and score more efficiently and suddenly the need for a primary scorer goes out the window.

Those are just my thoughts.

I'm not worried about our ability to score. The Jazz have been a top 10 offensive efficiency team since the begging of time. I'm worried about scoring at the end of games.

 

[One Brow]

Do you think our young guns have the tools to play shut down D?

With the various rules changes, individual shutdown wing defense may be a thing of the past. It needs to be team defense.

 

[orangello]

I'm not worried about our ability to score. The Jazz have been a top 10 offensive efficiency team since the begging of time. I'm worried about scoring at the end of games.

This. That is what I was trying to say. I started to ramble at the end of the post. Who is the go to scorer? I feel like Burks has that potential but that will mean that he needs to get much stronger so that he can finish through contact. If Hayward works on his shot even more he could help to spread the floor similar to what Chalmers (who I cannot stand so I hate that I am using him as an example) does for the Heat. He is enough of a threat that you cannot leave him. The biggest difference between Chalmers and Hayward is that Hayward can play much better defense and Hayward is not obnoxious.

 

[orangello]

With the various rules changes, individual shutdown wing defense may be a thing of the past. It needs to be team defense.

I agree with this. I see that this core has the potential to be a great defensive team together.

 

[Growlor]

I'm not worried about our ability to score. The Jazz have been a top 10 offensive efficiency team since the begging of time. I'm worried about scoring at the end of games.

I am worried about our ability to score from outside. We may have always been a top 10 offensive team, but last year it was almost explusively from in the paint. If we can open the game up from the outside it can only help our bigs do better.
My question is... if we are looking for consistent outside scoring is it better for our setup to look for a PG threat or a SF threat? Which would fit into our current roster the best?

 

[orangello]

i am worried about our ability to score from outside. We may have always been a top 10 offensive team, but last year it was almost explusively from in the paint. If we can open the game up from the outside it can only help our bigs do better.
My question is... If we are looking for consistent outside scoring is it better for our setup to look for a pg threat or a sf threat? Which would fit into our current roster the best?

imo pg.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I completely agree with Hollinger. For us to contend it has to be defense first since we don't have a guy who is going to get to the foul line a guaranteed 10 times per game and is going to score at least 30 ppg.

With the various rules changes, individual shutdown wing defense may be a thing of the past. It needs to be team defense.

If this is the case, not only do we need to trade Al, but Millsap as well. Both Al and Millsap are our biggest defensive liabilities on the team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If this is the case, not only do we need to trade Al, but Millsap as well. Both Al and Millsap are our biggest defensive liabilities on the team.

I think Millsap is still a good defender. Yes, against big/long players he gets destroyed at times, but he always plays tough. I think his future is Udonis Haslem role, and he can definitely play good defense in a 25 mpg role.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I think Millsap is still a good defender. Yes, against big/long players he gets destroyed at times, but he always plays tough. I think his future is Udonis Haslem role, and he can definitely play good defense in a 25 mpg role.

I don't think he wants that roll.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I think Millsap is still a good defender. Yes, against big/long players he gets destroyed at times, but he always plays tough. I think his future is Udonis Haslem role, and he can definitely play good defense in a 25 mpg role.

Just want to add that we may need to trade him, because soon he will be a free agent, can we afford to pay an undersized big that doesn't want to come off the bench, and doesn't want to play less then thirty minutes. And if Kanter develops he will have to come off the bench.

 

[green]

Someone needs to tweet this on the "Deron come back" twitter account. Deron makes this team a contender immediately. Then, if we added another outside shooter? We would be really, really good.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Someone needs to tweet this on the "Deron come back" twitter account. Deron makes this team a contender immediately. Then, if we added another outside shooter? We would be really, really good.

I would consider reversing the sequence.

 

[green]

I would consider reversing the sequence.

OK

 

[cowhide]

Well I still wonder who the guy will be when the Jazz need a tough basket. Watching the NBA playoffs, many games come down to who can make big shots in the 4 quarter. Do the Jazz have anyone who consistently proven they can be the guy? The only guys who have shown that ability sometimes have been AJ and Millsap. Two guys everyone wants to trade. I certainly think defense is the key to winning a championship but the Jazz still need more talent. OKC overwhelms other teams with their talent. Jazz need our young four guys to mature and grow together but they also need more help. This is the main reason why I was hoping for the Jazz to get both picks this year. Jazz lack scorers especially off the bench. What makes OKC tough is that Harden, Westbrook and Durrant can score 30 pts on you. Right now the Jazz don't have that capability.

It would be nice to get a solid PG who can both shoot and distribute the ball. It would be definitely nice to get a stud SF and then move either Hayward or Burks to the bench as our sixth man. Having too many shooters is a nice problem to have. I hope KOC addresses a few of these issues either through the draft or FA. It is time to start building a team and to play the young guys so they can build some chemistry.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Millsap definitely has some "clutch genes".

I think Hayward is 0/100 (yes hyperbole) in last shot situations. I just remember that one overtime stretch where he took 3 last seconds shots and missed them all.