How bad is Kanter?

[GVC]

GVC, you probably didn't see it but I thought I'd bump to see if you'd respond.

I saw it. It had already been asked. I didn't answer because it's not terribly relevant to the point I'm making.

I've already stated several times that any of these moves/non-moves can be excused in isolation. What concerns me is the bigger picture -- the bleeding of assets and missed opportunities to add talent. DL has let four players who are now key players on other teams leave -- Al, Millsap, DMC, Kanter -- and received only Tibor and a late 1st or 2nd round pick in return. He's still made no trades bringing back established NBA players to be a part of the team long-term, and his biggest free agent acquisition is Trevor Booker.

If you think the team has enough talent to legitimately contend in the next few years -- after which DL will have to make decisions on Jazz unrestricted free agents (e.g. Gordo can opt out after next season) -- that's not that big a deal. I don't think that. As such, DL still has work to do to add talent. He hasn't shown an ability to do that outside the draft, which is worrisome given where the Jazz will be drafting and the impending unrestricted free agency of current Jazz players. As I've said, the near universal worship of DL on this site is premature.

 

[Miggs]

I saw it. It had already been asked. I didn't answer because it's not terribly relevant to the point I'm making.

I've already stated several times that any of these moves/non-moves can be excused in isolation. What concerns me is the bigger picture -- the bleeding of assets and missed opportunities to add talent. DL has let four players who are now key players on other teams leave -- Al, Millsap, DMC, Kanter -- and received only Tibor and a late 1st or 2nd round pick in return. He's still made no trades bringing back established NBA players to be a part of the team long-term, and his biggest free agent acquisition is Trevor Booker.

If you think the team has enough talent to legitimately contend in the next few years -- after which DL will have to make decisions on Jazz unrestricted free agents (e.g. Gordo can opt out after next season) -- that's not that big a deal. I don't think that. As such, DL still has work to do to add talent. He hasn't shown an ability to do that outside the draft, which is worrisome given where the Jazz will be drafting and the impending unrestricted free agency of current Jazz players. As I've said, the near universal worship of DL on this site is premature.

That's fair. The only thing I'd say is that you continue to state how each instance can be excused "in isolation." For me, each instance should be viewed as such, individually, rather than as a part of some collective whole. With each free agent were unique and particular circumstances. I mentioned Al's and Paul's. Kanter's as well. Those are completely valid reasons for not having received more assets back. Now, losing Demarre was a tough pill to swallow. That, to me, was/is disappointing. But off the top of my head, to be honest, I don't recall the unique circumstances with our salary cap situation at that time.

 

[Miggs]

I'd probably give Lindsey a B to this point.

 

[GVC]

For me, each instance should be viewed as such, individually, rather than as a part of some collective whole.

You're still missing my point. I'm citing those examples to highlight what DL hasn't done to date: No trades for longterm players, no notable free agency acquisitions, no playoff appearances, contention still years away. The Jazz can't afford to miss out on opportunities to add talent; NBA contracts are at most 5 years long now (Gordo can opt out in a year, Favors is an UFA the year after), and the Jazz operate in an undesirable, small-ish market. I don't care if there's a reasonable excuse for getting nothing for Al, Millsap, Carroll and Kanter. I care that DL hasn't yet shown an ability to turn current players into future pieces of a contender, or generally add talent when he had the ability to do so in free agency -- Pleiss, Neto and the collection of DLeague scrubs were easy/lazy signings.

 

[Miggs]

You're still missing my point. I'm citing those examples to highlight what DL hasn't done to date: No trades for longterm players, no notable free agency acquisitions, no playoff appearances, contention still years away. The Jazz can't afford to miss out on opportunities to add talent

I disagree. He's not skipping steps. Upon becoming GM, we already had Burks, Hayward and Favors. He's since drafted Burke, Gobert, Exum, Hood, Neto and Lyles. All contribute. He's added talent and believes in growing the team organically, as do I. Signing a player at any of those positions would severely cut into the development of said players and in doing so give him, Quin and the staff a muddled view of just what they have in that talent. He's likely realized that signing a guy to simply get us an extra 3-5 wins isn't the way to go. Let Quin truly develop these guys and then, when we have matured some and their ceilings have been ironed out, advance, so to speak.

That said, I do think once Exum went down, we should've strongly pursued a perimeter shooting, defensive-minded PG ala Chalmers (or at least he used to be) to solidify the starters and give the rest of the team both individually and collectively, a chance to flourish this year.

 

[GVC]

Keep in mind, the Golden State trade was completed over 28 months ago. Since then, the only trade DL has made is the Kanter trade (that is, he was only active in the summer of 2013). The only free agents DL has signed are Booker, Pleiss, Neto, and a bunch of DLeaguers (also claimed Ingles). Is there a GM in the league who has done less in the last 28 months?

 

[Miggs]

I know he's the face of the franchise but I'd do a Hayward/Burks/OKC 1st/protected Utah 1st for Paul George and decent bench guy type of trade to give us a true, fairly proven alpha. The fan base would be stunned but once we started performing better, they'd forget all about Gordon.

 

[Miggs]

Keep in mind, the Golden State trade was completed over 28 months ago. Since then, the only trade DL has made is the Kanter trade (that is, he was only active in the summer of 2013). The only free agents DL has signed are Booker, Pleiss, Neto, and a bunch of DLeaguers (also claimed Ingles). Is there a GM in the league who has done less in the last 28 months?

Vlade. By doing more, he's done less.

 

[GVC]

I disagree. He's not skipping steps. Upon becoming GM, we already had Burks, Hayward and Favors. He's since drafted Burke, Gobert, Exum, Hood, Neto and Lyles. All contribute. He's added talent and believes in growing the team organically, as do I. Signing a player at any of those positions would severely cut into the development of said players and in doing so give him, Quin and the staff a muddled view of just what they have in that talent. He's likely realized that signing a guy to simply get us an extra 3-5 wins isn't the way to go. Let Quin truly develop these guys and then, when we have matured some and their ceilings have been ironed out, advance, so to speak.

Holy ****. With the length of NBA contracts now, if you sit around and wait until things are completely clear, you end up getting nothing for players who end up being key pieces on contenders. This "not skipping steps" nonsense is infuriating. He's not taking steps either.

 

[Miggs]

Holy ****. With the length of NBA contracts now, if you sit around and wait until things are completely clear, you end up getting nothing for players who end up being key pieces on contenders. This "not skipping steps" nonsense is infuriating. He's not taking steps either.

What FA's would you have liked he signed over the last two summers?

 

[GVC]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're trolling me.

 

[Miggs]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're trolling me.

Admittedly, I haven't read the entire thread so if this was already posed to you and/or you already mentioned certain names, I've not seen it.