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how can jazz not make the playoff?

how can jazz not make playoofs

easy:
there are 8 teams better than jazz
bad bench
bad vets


wouldnt be sprised if we were better than teh 7/8 seeds in east but we have 0 chance of playoffs in west

u say warriors are yung, but they also had key vets (lee, bogut, landry, jack)
 
Dutch, I agree with your assessment that our starting line-up is better than last season. As others have pointed out, as the starters suffer minor injuries here and there, deal with fatigue, slumps, we have an awful bench that can't match their production. If the front office had signed Will Bynum, Foye, Carroll, and we'd a acquired a decent 3rd big like Robin Lopez, I honestly think we'd be in the mix for the final playoff spot. Our bench went from being the best in the league, to possibly the worst and it's going to cost us several wins.
 
How do we not make the playoffs?

Clippers
Spurs
OKC
Rockets
Memphis
Warriors

Are all likely playoff teams.

Denver
Dallas
Minny

Are probably fighting for the last 2 spots.

Portland
Sacramento
New Orleans
Lakers

Are all likely going to be as good or better than the Jazz.

Jazz
Phoenix

That's your likely bottom 2 for the Western Conference. Yeah, we'll have nights where we look like giant killers, but, we're going to have a lot of painful nights, especially when the bench comes in and on the road.
 
My prediction is 8th worst record. Our young guys as talented as they are will struggle playing 82 games 30 plus minutes a game. Our bench is dreadful. We have Corbin. I just don't think it's possible to be any better than 10 but will settle for 8.
 
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Where do the warriors end up? I think worse than last year and that's without injuries. Jack and Landry were beasting. Not sure if iggy makes them better.
 
Jazz will probably finish with the 12th best record in the west. Our starters may be better but there is still a steep learning curve when it comes to being a full time starter vs coming off of the bench. Still excited though, rather see the youth play an exciting game and lose, than to see what we had last year
 
DutchJazzer said:
Burke > tinsley and watson who started about 30 games.
burks > foye...

am i to optimistic?
am i drinking the koolaid.
Click to expand...
You cannot simply compare the individual players: it is a team that wins or loses, and every team is something different from a sum of its parts.


More specifically:

1. Scoring in the crunch time at the end of the games: whatever we think about Al and Millsap (when on fire) they could score when needed. Even Mo with his hero ball was passable at that. I am really not so sure that Favors, Kanter or Hayward could do so at this stage in their careers.

2. Experience. Al, Millsap and Mo played many times against all starters at their positions in the NBA. They know their bags of tricks, they know where they struggle against each of them and how to compensate for their weaknesses. Kanter, Burks, and Burke will still have to go through the painful discovery process.

3. Leadership. Who are the leaders on the new Jazz team? Hayward, Favors, Burke? The leader or two will eventually emerge, but the Jazz will struggle mightily until then.

4. The ever point-guard oriented Jazz will have to rely on the guy who is new to the team and even to the NBA.


And so on...
 
IBProfane said:
Dutch, I agree with your assessment that our starting line-up is better than last season. As others have pointed out, as the starters suffer minor injuries here and there, deal with fatigue, slumps, we have an awful bench that can't match their production. If the front office had signed Will Bynum, Foye, Carroll, and we'd a acquired a decent 3rd big like Robin Lopez, I honestly think we'd be in the mix for the final playoff spot. Our bench went from being the best in the league, to possibly the worst and it's going to cost us several wins.
Click to expand...
yes starting lineup is ofcourse better.
whish we kept millsap and carrol. that would have bolstered our bench a bit.
 
doubledribble said:
You cannot simply compare the individual players: it is a team that wins or loses, and every team is something different from a sum of its parts.


More specifically:

1. Scoring in the crunch time at the end of the games: whatever we think about Al and Millsap (when on fire) they could score when needed. Even Mo with his hero ball was passable at that. I am really not so sure that Favors, Kanter or Hayward could do so at this stage in their careers.

2. Experience. Al, Millsap and Mo played many times against all starters at their positions in the NBA. They know their bags of tricks, they know where they struggle against each of them and how to compensate for their weaknesses. Kanter, Burks, and Burke will still have to go through the painful discovery process.

3. Leadership. Who are the leaders on the new Jazz team? Hayward, Favors, Burke? The leader or two will eventually emerge, but the Jazz will struggle mightily until then.

4. The ever point-guard oriented Jazz will have to rely on the guy who is new to the team and even to the NBA.


And so on...
Click to expand...


yet our bench was better than those starters.
by FAR.
the starters would dig a hole bench would come in and erase it.

so basically our bench became our starters overnight(barring stupidity by corbin).
so all those points you mentioned did not mean **** last year
 
To make the playoffs....the Jazz don't have to get better.....the other teams just have to get worse! Jazz would make the playoffs if Corbin wasn't the coach plain and simple! Dutch man would 2nd that emotion, too!
 
Basketball is a simple game. Work to get as many men open for easy shots as you can......then get the ball to that open man for that open shot, within 24 seconds! On defense, keep your man in front of you! Force him to beat you with a contested outside shot or 3 point shot! Box your man out and do not let him grab an offensive rebound! If someone on the opposing team is on fire.....DENY him the ball! It requires only effort and not much else! If they allow palming, then YOU palm the ball! If they allow traveling, then you travel with the ball! If they allow flopping, then YOU flop! If they allow jailhouse tats......scrap all of yours off with a broken beer bottle!
 
Spurs/OKC/Clippers/Rockets/Warriors/Memphis should all be a lock if injuries dont come into account. That leaves two spots for Portland/Dallas/Sac/NO/Jazz to fight over. Its possibly but that would mean a smooth transition for Burke into the league and for our C4 to play amazing.
 
fgcamel said:
I think the bench factor will be big. and I expect us to get off to a slow start with everyone getting used to each other and their new roles, how quickly everyone gets it together (and I'm gonna drink the kool aid and say they definitely will eventually) will determine whether we can make the playoffs or not imo
Click to expand...
Exactly. We lost 4 of our top 5 scorers (assuming neither Foye nor Mo return). It's going to take time for guys to figure out their roles, develop chemistry, make adjustments on plays (and know what their teammates will do). Even IF the starters have great years, our bench is going to lose games. Look at Portland last season: Aldridge, Matthews, Batum and Lillard and Hickson. That's a playoff quality team, and veterans at that, with the exception of Lillard, All he did was win ROY. Weak link was Hickson, who played ok, but not great. Reason they fell short: their bench. In the WC, Denver and LA Lakers could tumble. The other playoff teams all look like locks to make it to the post-season again. Of the non-playoff teams, I'd certainly say NOLA and Portland will make strong bids. Sacramento has improved. And don't count out Minny. They've been a .500 team when Rubio (and Love) have been healthy.
 
Gegenläufigen said:
how can jazz not make playoofs

easy:
there are 8 teams better than jazz
bad bench
bad vets


wouldnt be sprised if we were better than teh 7/8 seeds in east but we have 0 chance of playoffs in west

u say warriors are yung, but they also had key vets (lee, bogut, landry, jack)
Click to expand...

Vermin said:
Where do the warriors end up? I think worse than last year and that's without injuries. Jack and Landry were beasting. Not sure if iggy makes them better.
Click to expand...

First to start off with our own guys...some of you are way behind and don't keep up with the news of the Jazz before you post, must be the fans that think the trade with GSW was a bad trade, lol, it actually was a GREAT trade like some posters on here agree with and a smart enough to understand.

AL JEFFERSON, PAUL MILLSAP, and DEMARRE CARROLL ARE NOT ON THE JAZZ ROSTER ANYMORE (because Big Al signed an offer sheet by the Bobcats and the Jazz had to rescind the bird rights to Paul Millsap and Demarre Carroll when they made the trade with the Warriors)! Word of advice get a twitter account and follow David Locke, Jody Genessey, Bill Oram, and Chad Ford before you post on here again. If that's to complicated check out ESPN.com or sports.yahoo.com or check out any local newspaper site meaning sltrib.com or deseretnews.com and on any of those site check out the Sports/NBA news before you post. Thank you.

Now with a team I want to see FAIL and FAIL hard because we have their 2014 1st round pick is the Golden State Warriors. Jarret Jack and Carl Landry bird rights were rescinded for them to sign Andre Iguodala so they don't have the cap room to bring them back necessarily barring any vet minimum or bi-annual exemption or the mid level exemption. Hopefully Stephen Curry and Andrew Bogut with their injury history, the injury bug will find them again this season and the only player on their bench worth anything is now Harrison Barnes. So their depth is gone as well.
 
DutchJazzer said:
yet our bench was better than those starters.
by FAR.
the starters would dig a hole bench would come in and erase it.

so basically our bench became our starters overnight(barring stupidity by corbin).
so all those points you mentioned did not mean **** last year
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's precisely the point we're making, The bench, which was so GOOD last season, now becomes our starters. That's a big jump to make. They outplayed SUBS last season, Let's assume they play well and hold their own against even the better teams. Then what? Beidrins, Evans, Jefferson, a PG TBD and a SG take their place. That unit is going to get KILLED! The bench will dig holes for the starters to try to climb out of. MAYBE the starters can do it AT HOME against some of the weaker teams, but they struggle to win road game against every team. They'll likely be a .500 team at home. 30 wins max; fewer if any of the C5 get injured.
 
Core4 said:
Exactly. We lost 4 of our top 5 scorers (assuming neither Foye nor Mo return). It's going to take time for guys to figure out their roles, develop chemistry, make adjustments on plays (and know what their teammates will do). Even IF the starters have great years, our bench is going to lose games. Look at Portland last season: Aldridge, Matthews, Batum and Lillard and Hickson. That's a playoff quality team, and veterans at that, with the exception of Lillard, All he did was win ROY. Weak link was Hickson, who played ok, but not great. Reason they fell short: their bench. In the WC, Denver and LA Lakers could tumble. The other playoff teams all look like locks to make it to the post-season again. Of the non-playoff teams, I'd certainly say NOLA and Portland will make strong bids. Sacramento has improved. And don't count out Minny. They've been a .500 team when Rubio (and Love) have been healthy.
Click to expand...


we lsot the guys clogging up the offense holding back the team.
and we lsot the guys who played 0 defense
 
DutchJazzer said:
we lsot the guys clogging up the offense holding back the team.
and we lsot the guys who played 0 defense
Click to expand...

Defense and offense in terms of Pts and Pts Allowed was in the middle of the pack last year. I agree with you the defense will be better for 35 mins. And the offense, once everyone gets on the same page, should be more efficient. Let's just assume the starters outplay their counterparts by 8-10 pts for the 30-35 mins they play. In the remaining 13-18 mins, our terrible bench is going to be outscored by a LOT. And that's optimistic. Against better teams - and on the road - our young starters will be doing great just to play even. Portland is the perfect example last season. All five starters were in double figures, led by Aldridge at 21 pts/per. Lillard was an amazing ROY averaging 19/7. They only won 33 games because of their terrible bench. Does Utah have a better bench? Rush if he comes back strong after his injury could help. But Beidrins and Jefferson were horrible.
 
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