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I am starting to hate trey Burke.

homeytennis said:
Here's one of the guys we traded for him. Wish we could hit the undo button?
https://probasketballtalk.nbcsports...-muhammads-career/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
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Shabazz had a lot of BS surrounding him that hit his stock pretty hard. I think people got the impression he was a person with a lot of baggage... I don't know the whole story but his dad was to blame for 99% of the garbage from what I've seen. I'm glad he's panning out (although it'd be nice if it was for us). I don't think there were ever doubts about his talent.
 
Oh and Trey really, really sucks... Not sure what to do about it though. Exum's not ready... not sure we could get anything good from trading Trey. If you could get a late first rounder for him would you do it? Sadly, I might.
 
Unfortunately, Jazz drafted who they thought was BPA, as in Best Point Available. They were desperate to get a point guard and had to take one. To Lindsey's defense, Trey was projected by many "experts" to go higher than he did. Drafting is such an inexact science. Sometimes you draft players who were productive in college, have the right size for their positions and they turn out to be busts. Sometimes you go for production and competitiveness over size. Sometimes teams overlook players who later develop into studs even though they were very raw at draft time or did not have the ideal size or came from small schools.

I'm not too down on DL for missing on Trey. MCW hasn't been any better. Burke, I think, was a "system" pick. He fit the traditional PG model the Jazz have used (other than shooting too much). Under Quin, I don't think Utah needs another pure PG. Hayward and Burks often initiate the offense (one reason I think Alec was locked up a bit high). If/when the Jazz upgrade, I wouldn't be surprised if the new player is more of a combo guard than another true PG.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Unfortunately, Jazz drafted who they thought was BPA, as in Best Point Available. They were desperate to get a point guard and had to take one. To Lindsey's defense, Trey was projected by many "experts" to go higher than he did. Drafting is such an inexact science. Sometimes you draft players who were productive in college, have the right size for their positions and they turn out to be busts. Sometimes you go for production and competitiveness over size. Sometimes teams overlook players who later develop into studs even though they were very raw at draft time or did not have the ideal size or came from small schools.

I'm not too down on DL for missing on Trey. MCW hasn't been any better. Burke, I think, was a "system" pick. He fit the traditional PG model the Jazz have used (other than shooting too much). Under Quin, I don't think Utah needs another pure PG. Hayward and Burks often initiate the offense (one reason I think Alec was locked up a bit high). If/when the Jazz upgrade, I wouldn't be surprised if the new player is more of a combo guard than another true PG.
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If that's the case, the guy is on the roster in Ian although he appears be glued to the bench right now.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
My hope after last season was that he could still turn into Mike Conley. That's off the table now. He's lacking in athleticism and isn't as good a shooter as we thought after he was drafted. I can't think of any successful starting PG's that lacked those two things. Also, I'm pretty confident we have the worst starting PG in the league right now. That pretty much says it all.
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Ronnie Price is currently the starting PG for the Lakers, so while way down in the list, Burke isn't quite the worst starting PG.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Oh and Trey really, really sucks... Not sure what to do about it though. Exum's not ready... not sure we could get anything good from trading Trey. If you could get a late first rounder for him would you do it? Sadly, I might.
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Think package deals.
Trey, the #6 and the GS pick for Mudiay.
Trey and the GS pick for a veteran another team wants to unload for cap purposes.

Unlike Enes, who has great size and has already shown flashes of a good interior and good midrange game, I doubt Utah would hesitate to pull the trigger on a deal involving Trey. I don't think he has a ton of upside.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Unfortunately, Jazz drafted who they thought was BPA, as in Best Point Available. They were desperate to get a point guard and had to take one. To Lindsey's defense, Trey was projected by many "experts" to go higher than he did. Drafting is such an inexact science. Sometimes you draft players who were productive in college, have the right size for their positions and they turn out to be busts. Sometimes you go for production and competitiveness over size. Sometimes teams overlook players who later develop into studs even though they were very raw at draft time or did not have the ideal size or came from small schools.

I'm not too down on DL for missing on Trey. MCW hasn't been any better. Burke, I think, was a "system" pick. He fit the traditional PG model the Jazz have used (other than shooting too much). Under Quin, I don't think Utah needs another pure PG. Hayward and Burks often initiate the offense (one reason I think Alec was locked up a bit high). If/when the Jazz upgrade, I wouldn't be surprised if the new player is more of a combo guard than another true PG.
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I don't know about the pure point guard thing so much as Trey was lauded as a good pick n roll player coming out of college. That aspect should enable him (provided its true) to fit into the offense of Dr. Snyder - the one who has a PhD in pick n roll.
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Trey is baffling to me. He can hit clutch shots which logically points to the fact that his hand eye coordination is there. But his regular shooting - even his mid range game is not there... His offense on PnR was his forte in college, yet PnR in the pros is not so good. His PnR defense is not about his capability as much as it is his willingness. I would have bet, as the Jazz did, that someone who seemed to 'own' the college game is not willing to own the game now. One poster used the word "entitled" earlier and that seemed to be the perfect word to up his general countenance (esp. on D.) On PnR it appears he 'allows' the screener to get him and then be ticked when his teammate doesn't do something right. (Watch the 19yr old exum on PnR D... much different attitude in dealing with it. ) Finally, his game is as selfish as Exum's is tentative. In the Philly game he has fast break with 1 on 1 but two Jazz guys trailing. He takes the tough shot (made it) but it was an obvious assist moment (flick it behind him). I actually jumped off the couch in frustration at this play. Also, the reference in this thread about his unwillingness to pass to the screener in PnR is true. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought last year he did that quite well. Maybe he's been scouted and can't do it. However, I think it is a choice to not do it. I've seen him make some good passes when he tries. (One more note on d. In non PnR situations, when he's guarding on-ball, he plays one side, like everyone in NBA does expecting the help, but it is so exaggerated 'one side' that it appears he is not even there. Again, I think this is a subconscious assignment to others to 'take the task' and he's ticked 1/2 the time at the help-d when it turns out poorly.
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Overall, most of his issues are between the ears (and in his heart) I see that most of you are saying its physical (lack thereof) I don't think so (at least to reach his potential.) While Dalamon calls him Black Jesus, I really think he needs a Come-to-Jesus sort of moment and realize he is limiting his play. For this reason, I haven't given up on him. I think he will have that realization that he's finally in a league of his peers (he's been better than everyone his whole life). And so he'll have to take a different approach to the game mentally if he wants to remain in the league.
 
Way to early to consign him to the D.J. Augustin professional junk heap. I have to admit I often find myself screaming at the TV when Trey can't finish; he misses the easiest shots to go along with the occasional ill-advised long-range launch. Having said that, I'm seeing glimpses of progress, especially his drastically improved ability to get into the paint and his enhanced court awareness. I have to believe his shooting will improve as he becomes completely comfortable with Snyder's system. His assist-to-turnover ratio is among the best in the league and should be considered when evaluating his performance/potential. He's also a clever ball-handler and has certain leadership qualities.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Think package deals.
Trey, the #6 and the GS pick for Mudiay.
Trey and the GS pick for a veteran another team wants to unload for cap purposes.

Unlike Enes, who has great size and has already shown flashes of a good interior and good midrange game, I doubt Utah would hesitate to pull the trigger on a deal involving Trey. I don't think he has a ton of upside.
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True, but I think the Jazz have 0 interest in Mudiay. I think they will be looking to get a good vet PG in here soon and will open up the pocketbook to do it. A team of Dragic/Burks/Hayward/Favors/Gobert could be formidable. The PG spot is really holding this team back right now.
 
Jazz4ever said:
True, but I think the Jazz have 0 interest in Mudiay. I think they will be looking to get a good vet PG in here soon and will open up the pocketbook to do it. A team of Dragic/Burks/Hayward/Favors/Gobert could be formidable. The PG spot is really holding this team back right now.
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Agree it would be a tremendous upgrade, but I'd say it's 99% probable Dragic remains with Phoenix. The cap is skyrocketing in 18 months, so for any team to retain free agents this year is no big deal, even if it lands them in the tax for 1 season. Being a repeat offender is where it really hurts. Also, Phoenix signed Dragic's brother. I think that signals they're looking to re-sign him - and maybe hoping he'll give them a discount so he can continue to play with his big brother.

Utah doesn't have the cap space to go after a max or near-max free agent...unless they are willing to part ways with Enes. I just don't see them doing that.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Agree it would be a tremendous upgrade, but I'd say it's 99% probable Dragic remains with Phoenix. The cap is skyrocketing in 18 months, so for any team to retain free agents this year is no big deal, even if it lands them in the tax for 1 season. Being a repeat offender is where it really hurts. Also, Phoenix signed Dragic's brother. I think that signals they're looking to re-sign him - and maybe hoping he'll give them a discount so he can continue to play with his big brother.

Utah doesn't have the cap space to go after a max or near-max free agent...unless they are willing to part ways with Enes. I just don't see them doing that.
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If Dragic loves it there and gives them a hometown discount yeah it's not happening. Phoenix has another PG besides Bledsoe and Dragic that blows away Burke as well, Thomas, who is under an incredible deal until 2018 (just about the time Exum will be ready). Dealing Thomas would let Phoenix get some minutes for their #18 pick Tyler Ennis as well. All roads lead to Phoenix I think.
 
why are we trying to bet the farm on a player who plays the position of our supposed future superstar? What vet is going to walk into that situation? If you want PG coverage you will need a combo guard.
 
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