I can't believe how young the team is

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That Jazz could easily have been on a 12 game winning streak if they won those other really close games in January. If we had Favors for all those games, we probably are on a 12 game winning streak.

 

[Game6Conley]

No one has more optimism then me, but we aren't a serious contender for a title just a good young team. If this team can for the most part stay together they will in my mind eventually be contenders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When the Jazz win the chip they'll talk about the defense, like the '04 Pistons, that's my point..

that's what they'll remember..

That also means the star is already here --- Rudy Gobert. Maintaining that defensive integrity is why Rudy's an absolute no-brainer when it times to decide on giving him a 5 year contract.. He's certainly less expendable than Hayward (not that they can't keep em both)... It's not about who's a better basketball player either, players like Rudy are scarce compared to players like Hayward, it's not even close.. He's also younger than Hay by 28 months, which factors into the scarcity/determining who's more expendable..

A team built on defense and rebounding like that reduces the need for an absolute super-mega-star to carry the squad offensively anyway, .. .. The players individual values will all be high when it happens, multiple all-stars --- it's going to take nothing less to unseat the powers in the west......

Obviously a defense can't carry you to a victory in the NBA like what we just saw with the Bronco's in the super bowl, It can make things much, much easier though.


what I'm saying in the previous posts is the Jazz have the opportunity to pick and choose their spots with how they can plug in more offense, while maintaining or even trying to improve the defensive integrity.. they have alot of those opportunities in front of them, which is great because the way I see it, there's many ways they can try to improve the offense. plenty of room for improvement. I'm also saying they can actually get younger while they're doing trial and error, if it's done right, It's not that far-fetched, other teams can and will do it for sure during that time -- the Jazz have better assets than those teams already though..

They've also got a ****load of cap flexibility, the rising salary cap is going to benefit this whole process greatly, it will allow for more error, which of course also means if that error is minimized, it'll allow for more efficiency -- The Jazz F/o is doing a great job so i'm confident they won't **** this up. Not only will they open up a window, they're gonna open up a big *** window -- I'm sure of it.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

When the Jazz win the chip they'll talk about the defense, like the '04 Pistons, that's my point..

that's what they'll remember..

That also means the star is already here --- Rudy Gobert. Maintaining that defensive integrity is why Rudy's an absolute no-brainer when it times to decide on giving him a 5 year contract.. He's certainly less expendable than Hayward (not that they can't keep em both)... It's not about who's a better basketball player either, players like Rudy are scarce compared to players like Hayward, it's not even close.. He's also younger than Hay by 28 months, which factors into the scarcity/determining who's more expendable..

A team built on defense and rebounding like that reduces the need for an absolute super-mega-star to carry the squad offensively anyway, .. .. The players individual values will all be high when it happens, multiple all-stars --- it's going to take nothing less to unseat the powers in the west......

Obviously a defense can't carry you to a victory in the NBA like what we just saw with the Bronco's in the super bowl, It can make things much, much easier though.


what I'm saying in the previous posts is the Jazz have the opportunity to pick and choose their spots with how they can plug in more offense, while maintaining or even trying to improve the defensive integrity.. they have alot of those opportunities in front of them, which is great because the way I see it, there's many ways they can try to improve the offense. plenty of room for improvement. I'm also saying they can actually get younger while they're doing trial and error, if it's done right, It's not that far-fetched, other teams can and will do it for sure during that time -- the Jazz have better assets than those teams already though..

They've also got a ****load of cap flexibility, the rising salary cap is going to benefit this whole process greatly, it will allow for more error, which of course also means if that error is minimized, it'll allow for more efficiency -- The Jazz F/o is doing a great job so i'm confident they won't **** this up. Not only will they open up a window, they're gonna open up a big *** window -- I'm sure of it.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

When the Jazz win the chip they'll talk about the defense, like the '04 Pistons, that's my point..

that's what they'll remember..

That also means the star is already here --- Rudy Gobert. Maintaining that defensive integrity is why Rudy's an absolute no-brainer when it times to decide on giving him a 5 year contract.. He's certainly less expendable than Hayward (not that they can't keep em both)... It's not about who's a better basketball player either, players like Rudy are scarce compared to players like Hayward, it's not even close.. He's also younger than Hay by 28 months, which factors into the scarcity/determining who's more expendable..

A team built on defense and rebounding like that reduces the need for an absolute super-mega-star to carry the squad offensively anyway, .. .. The players individual values will all be high when it happens, multiple all-stars --- it's going to take nothing less to unseat the powers in the west......

Obviously a defense can't carry you to a victory in the NBA like what we just saw with the Bronco's in the super bowl, It can make things much, much easier though.


what I'm saying in the previous posts is the Jazz have the opportunity to pick and choose their spots with how they can plug in more offense, while maintaining or even trying to improve the defensive integrity.. they have alot of those opportunities in front of them, which is great because the way I see it, there's many ways they can try to improve the offense. plenty of room for improvement. I'm also saying they can actually get younger while they're doing trial and error, if it's done right, It's not that far-fetched, other teams can and will do it for sure during that time -- the Jazz have better assets than those teams already though..

They've also got a ****load of cap flexibility, the rising salary cap is going to benefit this whole process greatly, it will allow for more error, which of course also means if that error is minimized, it'll allow for more efficiency -- The Jazz F/o is doing a great job so i'm confident they won't **** this up. Not only will they open up a window, they're gonna open up a big *** window -- I'm sure of it.

Agree. I'm I think u have to include Favors with Gobert. Defense was good when Favors was out, but has been nothing short of amazing adding him to Gobert. With the emergence of Hood, Hayward is a prime trade target, however, Hayward is part of the defensive solution and a fine option on offense. We only trade Hayward if we feel he wants to leave. However I don't think he will want to leave. I think he's comfortable here and enjoys his teammates. Maybe u trade him in the middle of his next contract if Hood is firmly entrenched as the go to offensive scoring threat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stifle Tower]

My guess is Burk and Burke will both be traded before their current contract is up. I would think The Jazz should have cap space to keep the rest of the players - unless Exum and Lyles explode and end up being stars.

Of course the wild card in all of this is the front office - will they make the financial commitment to keep these players (assuming they're worth keeping) or will they try to spin another re-set?

Yes, they have to..I just don't see how Burks can remain. And Burke is a "dead man walking."

Hayward, Gobert and Favors are all going to have to take less than the max. And I think they could all be offered max contracts on the open market. As could Hood (or close to it) if he continues his trajectory. Jazz will just have to draft well so some of the new players replace ones that have become too expensive.

 

[Game6Conley]

I like the cut of your jib.

LOL -- I've never heard that before, I'm gonna use it now.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

When the Jazz win the chip they'll talk about the defense, like the '04 Pistons, that's my point..

that's what they'll remember..

That also means the star is already here --- Rudy Gobert. Maintaining that defensive integrity is why Rudy's an absolute no-brainer when it times to decide on giving him a 5 year contract.. He's certainly less expendable than Hayward (not that they can't keep em both)... It's not about who's a better basketball player either, players like Rudy are scarce compared to players like Hayward, it's not even close.. He's also younger than Hay by 28 months, which factors into the scarcity/determining who's more expendable..

A team built on defense and rebounding like that reduces the need for an absolute super-mega-star to carry the squad offensively anyway, .. .. The players individual values will all be high when it happens, multiple all-stars --- it's going to take nothing less to unseat the powers in the west......

Obviously a defense can't carry you to a victory in the NBA like what we just saw with the Bronco's in the super bowl, It can make things much, much easier though.


what I'm saying in the previous posts is the Jazz have the opportunity to pick and choose their spots with how they can plug in more offense, while maintaining or even trying to improve the defensive integrity.. they have alot of those opportunities in front of them, which is great because the way I see it, there's many ways they can try to improve the offense. plenty of room for improvement. I'm also saying they can actually get younger while they're doing trial and error, if it's done right, It's not that far-fetched, other teams can and will do it for sure during that time -- the Jazz have better assets than those teams already though..

They've also got a ****load of cap flexibility, the rising salary cap is going to benefit this whole process greatly, it will allow for more error, which of course also means if that error is minimized, it'll allow for more efficiency -- The Jazz F/o is doing a great job so i'm confident they won't **** this up. Not only will they open up a window, they're gonna open up a big *** window -- I'm sure of it.

Can we be talked about like the bad boys Pistons instead?? Just saying.

 

[fishonjazz]

I just don't see how Burks can remain.

Why?
Is Burks a bad third wing/6th man? Is his contact huge?

 

[Jazz4ever]

I'm glad the core is so young because, let's face it, no one is beating Curry in the next 3 years. Hopefully Durant goes out East, that would make our lives a lot easier in the future as well.

 

[♪alt13]

Yes, they have to..I just don't see how Burks can remain. And Burke is a "dead man walking."

Hayward, Gobert and Favors are all going to have to take less than the max. And I think they could all be offered max contracts on the open market. As could Hood (or close to it) if he continues his trajectory. Jazz will just have to draft well so some of the new players replace ones that have become too expensive.

Burks contract will be around 10% of the cap through 2018-2019. Barnes will likely get twice that. I think we keep Burks

 

[Coach Ellis]

I'm glad the core is so young because, let's face it, no one is beating Curry in the next 3 years. Hopefully Durant goes out East, that would make our lives a lot easier in the future as well.

Too bad Salt Lake isn't a hot free agent destination. I have no doubt that if a team from New York, Los Angeles or Miami had built the roster that the Jazz have, with MAX contract salary space and a bunch of assets to shore up weak spots. . . well, they'd be in the conversation for top free agents right now.

I wish that Utah had a "Reggie White" moment in them to lure a guy like Durant in free agency instead of hoping that he goes to an Eastern Conference team. A guy like KD would solve pretty much every problem that the Jazz have right now and they wouldn't have to sell off all their assets or depth (yet) to get him.

Unfortunately, guys who have options rarely pick Utah. Maybe having a front court and defense like the Jazz do will intrigue someone who thinks they'll turn into a contender, but I'm not holding my breath. Jazz will likely have to draft or trade for that guy. It's fun to dream about what that team would look like though.

 

[Carbon13]

Our team reminds me of the late 90's, early 00's Jail Blazers, minus the Jail part. Lots of talent across the board.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Burks contract will be around 10% of the cap through 2018-2019. Barnes will likely get twice that. I think we keep Burks

Why?
Is Burks a bad third wing/6th man? Is his contact huge?

Plug in the salaries and it just doesn't work. Salary cap is projected to be $108M in 2017. Luxury tax is generally $12M-$14M above the cap. Let's round to $120M for now.
Note: I'm really looking ahead to 2018, however, when Hood and Dante are also off their rookie deals. But no matter as the numbers below will increase by 4.5%-7.5% per year as the contracts age.

1. Hayward and Favors are eligible for 30% contracts. Let's be optimistic and say they each ask for $25M instead of $30M/per.
2. Gobert will be eligible for 25% as will Hood and Exum, Let's say Gobert gives us a break and settles for $20M. With the way Hood is developing (perhaps close to 20 pts/per by his 4th season), someone would offer him a big contract. Let's assume he also extends at $20M/per.
3. Who knows with Exum, Plug him in at $15M for now.

Those 5, WITH hometown discounts, are going to EASILY cost $105M or more. So that leaves about $15M for the rest of the roster (8 players). Even keeping Burke at $12M would throw the Jazz into the luxury tax as the MINIMUM salary for rookie FA's is > $500K (so 7*$500K = $3.5M). And this does not account for Lyles or any other 1st round picks. Lyles will make $3.3M in 2018. Count on a couple more (the 2016 and a 2017 pick - or two) to average somewhere in the $2M range each. I'm also assuming no Burke or vets like Ingles, Withey, etc. I'm not even counting Neto!

So starting 5 of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood and Exum = $105M (could easily go higher)
Rookie 1st-round draft picks = 4 (Lyles and 2016 and 2 from 2017) = $8M (if we trade up in 2017, the salary for a higher pick mostly offsets the savings from drafting one fewer player)
Minimum salaries to get to 13 roster spots (4*515K) = $2.5M

That puts Utah at a little over $115M, which MIGHT give them around $5M to play with under the luxury tax. Instead of rookie FA's, they might look for a couple of cheaper vets along the lines of a player like Withey or Neto to back up key positions. But certainly no room, without going SIGNIFICANTLY into the luxury tax to keep the five PLUS Burks. Again, this assumes Hayward and Favors both re-sign as UFA's AND everyone accepts a pretty good discount on their contract.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Too bad Salt Lake isn't a hot free agent destination. I have no doubt that if a team from New York, Los Angeles or Miami had built the roster that the Jazz have, with MAX contract salary space and a bunch of assets to shore up weak spots. . . well, they'd be in the conversation for top free agents right now.

I wish that Utah had a "Reggie White" moment in them to lure a guy like Durant in free agency instead of hoping that he goes to an Eastern Conference team. A guy like KD would solve pretty much every problem that the Jazz have right now and they wouldn't have to sell off all their assets or depth (yet) to get him.

Unfortunately, guys who have options rarely pick Utah. Maybe having a front court and defense like the Jazz do will intrigue someone who thinks they'll turn into a contender, but I'm not holding my breath. Jazz will likely have to draft or trade for that guy. It's fun to dream about what that team would look like though.

But only max space for a couple of years, then we'd need to let someone go. I'm pretty happy with our front court. Would I trade Favors for AD or KAT? Yes, no question about it. And would I rather have George, James, Leonard or Durant over Hayward? Sure. But that ain't happening, As for Gobert? No one could replace him. He's EVERYTHING to Utah in terms of not just his elite defense, but attitude and intensity. There is not one center in the game I would trade him for. Well, I guess KAT or AD paired up with Favors would make a dynamic duo.

As for the backcourt, I'm REALLY liking what Hood is turning into. Sure, you trade him for Thompson or Butler or Harden, etc. And the same with Exum (go get Curry). But no team has 5 franchise players and you can't pay everyone a max contract. I have no idea if Dante is going to reach the level of what we're seeing with the other 4. But I'm really liking what this roster is starting to show. Need more from the PG's. And more scoring off the bench. Other than that, I'm very excited to see this team develop,

Now if DL could add 1-2 players who wouldn't affect the extremely tight cap situation we'll have in 2018, then I'd really start drinking the punch. BTW, this is why I've been so disgusted with DL. I KNEW 2018/19 was shaping up to be tight (when all our core is off their rookie contracts). So really LAST year was the time to add someone on a 4yr contract (which would then come off the books before Hood and Exum get paid). DL missed a very key window to strike a deal or make a trade. And it really didn't net much to "not skip steps." Sliding into the 8th seed would have resulted in the 18th pick instead of the 12th, Lyles has shown promise, but so have quite a few players who were available at 18 or lower.

 

[fishonjazz]

Plug in the salaries and it just doesn't work. Salary cap is projected to be $108M in 2017. Luxury tax is generally $12M-$14M above the cap. Let's round to $120M for now.
Note: I'm really looking ahead to 2018, however, when Hood and Dante are also off their rookie deals. But no matter as the numbers below will increase by 4.5%-7.5% per year as the contracts age.

1. Hayward and Favors are eligible for 30% contracts. Let's be optimistic and say they each ask for $25M instead of $30M/per.
2. Gobert will be eligible for 25% as will Hood and Exum, Let's say Gobert gives us a break and settles for $20M. With the way Hood is developing (perhaps close to 20 pts/per by his 4th season), someone would offer him a big contract. Let's assume he also extends at $20M/per.
3. Who knows with Exum, Plug him in at $15M for now.

Those 5, WITH hometown discounts, are going to EASILY cost $105M or more. So that leaves about $15M for the rest of the roster (8 players). Even keeping Burke at $12M would throw the Jazz into the luxury tax as the MINIMUM salary for rookie FA's is > $500K (so 7*$500K = $3.5M). And this does not account for Lyles or any other 1st round picks. Lyles will make $3.3M in 2018. Count on a couple more (the 2016 and a 2017 pick - or two) to average somewhere in the $2M range each. I'm also assuming no Burke or vets like Ingles, Withey, etc. I'm not even counting Neto!

So starting 5 of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood and Exum = $105M (could easily go higher)
Rookie 1st-round draft picks = 4 (Lyles and 2016 and 2 from 2017) = $8M (if we trade up in 2017, the salary for a higher pick mostly offsets the savings from drafting one fewer player)
Minimum salaries to get to 13 roster spots (4*515K) = $2.5M

That puts Utah at a little over $115M, which MIGHT give them around $5M to play with under the luxury tax. Instead of rookie FA's, they might look for a couple of cheaper vets along the lines of a player like Withey or Neto to back up key positions. But certainly no room, without going SIGNIFICANTLY into the luxury tax to keep the five PLUS Burks. Again, this assumes Hayward and Favors both re-sign as UFA's AND everyone accepts a pretty good discount on their contract.

So you going to find a better, cheaper, 6th man who likes it here and is as young as alec Burks?
Good luck with that

 

[silesian]

Jazz have a good young roster but if you think 4 players on the Jazz have potential to be better then Wiggins , you are clueless.

Wow King Cy doesn't think Wiggins is going be an all star in the league.lmao... Shooting is important and his shot is better now then it was in high school and college. He will continue to improve... This is just funny.. Jazz roster so young and good but Wiggins nah he is DeRozan number 2.lol..okay

If Exum did not have the potential to be better than Wiggins, why did you have Exum above Wiggins on your draft board? (you also had Jabari, Smart and Gordon above Wiggins, by the way).

Were you wrong then or are you wrong now?

 

[Game6Conley]

If Exum did not have the potential to be better than Wiggins, why did you have Exum above Wiggins on your draft board? (you also had Jabari, Smart and Gordon above Wiggins, by the way).

Were you wrong then or are you wrong now?

Anyone still talking bad about Wiggins, in the context of that draft is a goddamn casual fan. It's as simple as that.

He was always the #1 prospect in that draft, lotta people coulda told you that years in advance. Anyone who had him 2 or less overthought what essentially was a layup.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Plug in the salaries and it just doesn't work. Salary cap is projected to be $108M in 2017. Luxury tax is generally $12M-$14M above the cap. Let's round to $120M for now.
Note: I'm really looking ahead to 2018, however, when Hood and Dante are also off their rookie deals. But no matter as the numbers below will increase by 4.5%-7.5% per year as the contracts age.

1. Hayward and Favors are eligible for 30% contracts. Let's be optimistic and say they each ask for $25M instead of $30M/per.
2. Gobert will be eligible for 25% as will Hood and Exum, Let's say Gobert gives us a break and settles for $20M. With the way Hood is developing (perhaps close to 20 pts/per by his 4th season), someone would offer him a big contract. Let's assume he also extends at $20M/per.
3. Who knows with Exum, Plug him in at $15M for now.

Those 5, WITH hometown discounts, are going to EASILY cost $105M or more. So that leaves about $15M for the rest of the roster (8 players). Even keeping Burke at $12M would throw the Jazz into the luxury tax as the MINIMUM salary for rookie FA's is > $500K (so 7*$500K = $3.5M). And this does not account for Lyles or any other 1st round picks. Lyles will make $3.3M in 2018. Count on a couple more (the 2016 and a 2017 pick - or two) to average somewhere in the $2M range each. I'm also assuming no Burke or vets like Ingles, Withey, etc. I'm not even counting Neto!

So starting 5 of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood and Exum = $105M (could easily go higher)
Rookie 1st-round draft picks = 4 (Lyles and 2016 and 2 from 2017) = $8M (if we trade up in 2017, the salary for a higher pick mostly offsets the savings from drafting one fewer player)
Minimum salaries to get to 13 roster spots (4*515K) = $2.5M

That puts Utah at a little over $115M, which MIGHT give them around $5M to play with under the luxury tax. Instead of rookie FA's, they might look for a couple of cheaper vets along the lines of a player like Withey or Neto to back up key positions. But certainly no room, without going SIGNIFICANTLY into the luxury tax to keep the five PLUS Burks. Again, this assumes Hayward and Favors both re-sign as UFA's AND everyone accepts a pretty good discount on their contract.

We can't really predict this far out. These new contracts will fall under a new CBA, which may alter the luxury tax in favor of the players. For instance if the tax was pushed out just $5 million more, we can keep everyone. You certainly don't go trading any key pieces until you know.

 

[GVC]

Plug in the salaries and it just doesn't work. Salary cap is projected to be $108M in 2017. Luxury tax is generally $12M-$14M above the cap. Let's round to $120M for now.
Note: I'm really looking ahead to 2018, however, when Hood and Dante are also off their rookie deals. But no matter as the numbers below will increase by 4.5%-7.5% per year as the contracts age.

1. Hayward and Favors are eligible for 30% contracts. Let's be optimistic and say they each ask for $25M instead of $30M/per.
2. Gobert will be eligible for 25% as will Hood and Exum, Let's say Gobert gives us a break and settles for $20M. With the way Hood is developing (perhaps close to 20 pts/per by his 4th season), someone would offer him a big contract. Let's assume he also extends at $20M/per.
3. Who knows with Exum, Plug him in at $15M for now.

Those 5, WITH hometown discounts, are going to EASILY cost $105M or more. So that leaves about $15M for the rest of the roster (8 players). Even keeping Burke at $12M would throw the Jazz into the luxury tax as the MINIMUM salary for rookie FA's is > $500K (so 7*$500K = $3.5M). And this does not account for Lyles or any other 1st round picks. Lyles will make $3.3M in 2018. Count on a couple more (the 2016 and a 2017 pick - or two) to average somewhere in the $2M range each. I'm also assuming no Burke or vets like Ingles, Withey, etc. I'm not even counting Neto!

So starting 5 of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood and Exum = $105M (could easily go higher)
Rookie 1st-round draft picks = 4 (Lyles and 2016 and 2 from 2017) = $8M (if we trade up in 2017, the salary for a higher pick mostly offsets the savings from drafting one fewer player)
Minimum salaries to get to 13 roster spots (4*515K) = $2.5M

That puts Utah at a little over $115M, which MIGHT give them around $5M to play with under the luxury tax. Instead of rookie FA's, they might look for a couple of cheaper vets along the lines of a player like Withey or Neto to back up key positions. But certainly no room, without going SIGNIFICANTLY into the luxury tax to keep the five PLUS Burks. Again, this assumes Hayward and Favors both re-sign as UFA's AND everyone accepts a pretty good discount on their contract.

A couple corrections (pulled from Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ):

1. Max salaries are based on a different percentage of BRI than the salary cap. That is, the salary cap is equal to 44.74% of BRI minus projected benefits divided by 30 (teams). Max salaries are calculated similarly using 42.14% of BRI. Effectively, the 25% and 30% max starting salaries are closer to 23.5% and 28.25% max starting salaries, respectively. LINK (see footnote 2)

2. The Luxury Tax is also equal to a percentage of BRI: 53.51% of BRI minus projected benefits divided by 30. As such, when the cap goes up significantly, the gap between the cap and the tax line also grows. When the cap increases to ~$108mil in 2017/18, the tax line should be in the neighborhood of $129mil. LINK


note: because projected benefits are subtracted after taking the percentage of BRI, the Tax:Cap and Cap:Max ratios are higher than 53.51:44.74 and 44.74:42.14, respectively (for completeness, I'm saying (53.51-a)/(44.74-a) > 53.51/44.74). As such, using an even lower max starting salary and higher luxury tax line ($130mil?) makes sense. Good news for the Jazz (ignoring entirely that people on this site seem to think players with decent contracts can't be traded...).

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Hayward is a man of simple taste. Probably already has more money than he could ever spend.

He's the OG. He built this team. I have to think he wants to see it through to its end.

Count me in the 'optimistic that Hayward meets us halfway on a deal' camp.