What's new
By:
Filters

If not Rubio then what?

MDAV28 said:
Exum gets $9.1 million a year + 500k in likely incentives + $1.4 million in unlikely incentives. The nature of the contract suggests if he gets $11 million a year, he is not doing "little". From what I see his last year isn't even guaranteed. It blows my mind that people think the Utah Jazz can afford to throw away a talented prospect because of... injuries? That he isn't Donovan Mitchell? Give me a break.

The box scores will be thrown in us Exum apologists faces over and over but do me a favor and watch how his ability to drive by anybody open up a shot for the offense. I won't even mention defense because that is a given and proven on the highest level in last years playoffs.

No he most likely will not live up to the #5 pick. Maybe he won't even be a starter? But he is currently a legitimate NBA rotation player with great upside still and you can do much worse.
Click to expand...
Ultimately, my point is that if cap is so valuable, I would rather have spent a fraction of the cost on Bjelica than I would on a guard that isn’t good at shooting and a throwback PF.

Exum is okay.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
No, I think it would have to be a guy on Harris level who is better at creating his own shot than those 2.
Click to expand...
Then why is Exum so valuable? Yes, I equate happily paying $eight-figures with “valuable” in case you keep doing your legalise dance.

Also, why keep Favors just to muddy everything up for what is obviously a backcourt that lacks reliable shooting?

Why not get what you can get when you can get it? Why assume we have to wait until Harris is a free agent to do anything proactive, especially since his signing here isn’t our ****ing call?
 
NUMBERICA said:
Ultimately, my point is that if cap is so valuable, I would rather have spent a fraction of the cost on Bjelica than I would on a guard that isn’t good at shooting and a throwback PF.

Exum is okay.
Click to expand...
Exum's contract was a gamble. I understand why they did it. I would have struck the same deal and signed it 10 out of 10 times. Maybe it'll bust, though.

We could have had Bjelica, too, though. Of course. It's stupid that we didn't sign him. If I hadn't been banned all summer, you'd've heard me yelling for him. (Probably older posts about this out there).
 
No thanks to Tim Hardaway.

I like Rozier more in the summer but then again, we have traded away a better 1st for one year rental Hill. At least we would have Rozier as a restricted free agent if we traded for him. Might keep him for cheap. I also think Mitchell would love playing with his old college teammate.

But it is unlikely we give up on Rubio. We are too stubborn to rip bandaids even when it's obviously time. Rozier is about as likely as Tobias Harris.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
We should just play AB more... DM showed his playmaking tonight. He can handle having the ball more... More AB in the triple wing.
 
Jazz Lineups >15min :
1. Exum-Burks-Ingles-Crowder-Favors - 24min - ORTG 116 - DRTG 92.7 - NRTG +23.3 ;)
2. Rubio-Mitchell-Ingles-Crowder-Gobert - 94min - ORTG 115.3 - DRTG 96.7 - NRTG +18.6 :)
3. Exum-Mitchell- Ingles-Crowder-Gobert - 16min - ORTG 97.4 - DRTG 81.6 - NRTG +15.9 :)
4. Exum-Mitchell-O'Neale-Crowder-Gobert - 20min - ORTG 100 - DRTG 88 - NRTG +12 :)
5. Rubio-Mitchell-Ingles-Favors-Gobert - 76min - ORTG 97.5 - DRTG 105 - NRTG -7.5 :(
6. Rubio-Mitchell-O'Neale-Crowder-Gobert - 34min - ORTG 89.9 - DRTG 112.2 - NRTG -22.3 :confused:

Analysis :
Lineup 1 : Good creation (Exum+Ingles), good spacing-3pts shooters, good athleticism, good defenders (Favors at C). This lineup is used against the opposing bench. Very effective.
Lineup 2 : Good creation (Rubio+Ingles), average spacing-3pts shooters (Rubio and Mitchell have to improve), good athleticism, good defenders. Very effective if the backcourt is efficient.
Lineup 3 : Very similar to lineup 2 (Exum replaces Rubio). The offense is inferior but the defense is better. Similar efficiency
Lineup 4 : Lack of creation (just Exum), lack of spacing-3pts shooters (bad ratio ast/to), good athleticism, very good defenders.
Lineup 5 : Starting Lineup. Good creation (Rubio+Ingles), lack of spacing-3pts shooters (bad ratio ast/to), good athleticism, lack of mobility in defense (Favors at PF). This lineup showed improvement lately.
Lineup 6 : Very similar to lineup 4 (Rubio replaces Exum). Offense and defense are bad. Big dysfunction.

Favors at C > Favors at PF
Exum's defense > Rubio's defense
 
Last edited:
lest we think this is a sample size issue and its a given that rubio is going to straighten things out, Rubio, over his career has the following shooting seasons in his career:

currently: 31% FGs, 29% 3pt

36% FGs, 29% 3pt
37% FGs, 32% 3pt
38% FGs, 33% 3pt
35% FGs, 25% 3pt (injury shortened)

I mean, this dude is capable of some horrific shooting numbers over the course of an entire season. And i'm not sure how you win (of course Minnesota didn't) with a guy like that playing big minutes and a big role. may just be too much to overcome for any team. At some point early in this season, Snyder may have to have the balls necessary to either yank him or cut his minutes significantly if his shooting doesn't come up to at least acceptable levels.
 
Great breakdowns by @Piso and @seattlejazzfan.

At this point, I think Snyder is letting him play through his issues. If issues persist, we need to let him rest from time to time to see what Exum, Burks and Grayson do with more pressure.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
You would expect people would have learnt something from last season, but they clearly don't.

Regardless of what you think of Rubio as a fit, he's had a positive career +/- in Minnesota despite playing for what was basically a 30 win team over the span of 6 years (only guy with a positive +/- since the KG days, other than KG's own reduced contribution in the 15-16 season), and he's obviously been succesful and a key piece during the regular season and playoffs in Utah, so it's complete nonsense to say you can't win with him.

Ricky's shooting numbers will go up as the season goes on. It's exactly the same every single season with him, and the truth is for all his shooting woes his positives still farly outweight his negatives. He seems to be a bit bouncier this year too with no NT duties over the summer, he's seemed a tad quicker attacking the basket and he's been better on D than a year ago, so hopefully he turns it up earlier than in previous seasons.

Also, like it or not, throughout the season there are going to be plenty of games when the team needs a true PG to run the offence, and the answer there is Rubio, plain and simple. Ingles can't do it full time (plus it's detrimental since you lose him as a spot-up shooter), Mitchell isn't ready for that role and he'll probably never be because he's just not that type of player (too many fans need to understand the difference between being able to pass the ball or playing point in a pinch and running an offence full time), and Exum definitely won't be either.

But seriously, just go read what was said on this board exactly a year ago, then read what was said in February, March, April or May, and draw some conclussions.
 
BTW, comparing and analizing lineups and results with 16, 20 and 30 minute samples is an utterly pointless exercise.
 
Sugarless said:
You would expect people would have learnt something from last season, but they clearly don't.

Regardless of what you think of Rubio as a fit, he's had a positive career +/- in Minnesota despite playing for what was basically a 30 win team over the span of 6 years (only guy with a positive +/- since the KG days, other than KG's own reduced contribution in the 15-16 season), and he's obviously been succesful and a key piece during the regular season and playoffs in Utah, so it's complete nonsense to say you can't win with him.

Ricky's shooting numbers will go up as the season goes on. It's exactly the same every single season with him, and the truth is for all his shooting woes his positives still farly outweight his negatives. He seems to be a bit bouncier this year too with no NT duties over the summer, he's seemed a tad quicker attacking the basket and he's been better on D than a year ago, so hopefully he turns it up earlier than in previous seasons.

Also, like it or not, throughout the season there are going to be plenty of games when the team needs a true PG to run the offence, and the answer there is Rubio, plain and simple. Ingles can't do it full time (plus it's detrimental since you lose him as a spot-up shooter), Mitchell isn't ready for that role and he'll probably never be because he's just not that type of player (too many fans need to understand the difference between being able to pass the ball or playing point in a pinch and running an offence full time), and Exum definitely won't be either.

But seriously, just go read what was said on this board exactly a year ago, then read what was said in February, March, April or May, and draw some conclussions.
Click to expand...

He hasn't been consistently good on defense this year. Was good last night and in GS, but we've been torched by ball handling guards this year. Not all his fault but some of it is.

I don't care what his plus minus was for a **** team 4-5 years ago... game has changed a bit. I care that his shooting and turnovers were murdering our offense this year and that he was bringing enough of the magic intangible stuff to justify his awful offense. His shooting needs to improve because if it doesn't we have better options this year.

He was good last year, but his net rating ended up basically even (+- is pointless if you are sharing the floor with the best players). I'm hopeful he picks it up, but the Rubio diehards might want to chill on the finger wagging until he gets his shooting anywhere near an acceptable level. His net rating is quite bad this year... so hopefully Rick Curry shows up soon.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Will he be as good as Jonathon Simmons who is *looks at stats sheet* shooting 29% from the field and 17% from 3?
Click to expand...

I need everyone to suspend talking poorly of Rozier for 2 days... we are setting ourselves up for him going for 30 and being full Scary Terry.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He hasn't been consistently good on defense this year. Was good last night and in GS, but we've been torched by ball handling guards this year. Not all his fault but some of it is.

I don't care what his plus minus was for a **** team 4-5 years ago... game has changed a bit. I care that his shooting and turnovers were murdering our offense this year and that he was bringing enough of the magic intangible stuff to justify his awful offense. His shooting needs to improve because if it doesn't we have better options this year.

He was good last year, but his net rating ended up basically even (+- is pointless if you are sharing the floor with the best players). I'm hopeful he picks it up, but the Rubio diehards might want to chill on the finger wagging until he gets his shooting anywhere near an acceptable level. His net rating is quite bad this year... so hopefully Rick Curry shows up soon.
Click to expand...
+/- isn't pointless and Utah does an extreme amount of mixing of different lineups.

And Rubio is big time in big moments (people always want to forget this). Last year he was 53% from the field, 57% from 3, and 95% from the FT line in the final 5 minutes of games within 5 points.

And the sample size is super small of 10 minutes this year of clutch time, but he's shooting 50%/50% from the field and three again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top