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If not Rubio then what?

Alfalfa said:
But Rozier comes off the bench for Irving...
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Boston is one of the deepest teams in the NBA. Coming off the bench you are playing with a red hot Marcus Morris and at least one of Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Gordon Hayward. Any offensive issues they face are on Rozier because he has been one of the least efficient offensive players in the NBA this season. Also probably because of Marcus Smart.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz's offense really hasnt been that bad with Rubio. It's the defensive issues. I don't think they can be linked to any single player, it's a team wide thing currently. A guy like Rozier certainly won't save that. He will probably just make the offense worse.
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Nail on the head. If Jazz could hold their ORTG around 109 (where they currently are) all season I'd be happy. Their defense needs to (and should) be about 100 DRTG and they'll end where many expect them to be.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Boston is one of the deepest teams in the NBA. Coming off the bench you are playing with a red hot Marcus Morris and at least one of Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Gordon Hayward. Any offensive issues they face are on Rozier because he has been one of the least efficient offensive players in the NBA this season. Also probably because of Marcus Smart.
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And he goes against bench guys... and they play in the JV conference. If he was building on his playoff success I could see a case... he's having a down year.

Why throw a pick (plus more... its danny he gets 110% of value in every trade) for a guy who on paper doesn't provide a clear upgrade over the two guys you have. Ricky will get better... I just don't think he goes Rick Curry like he did last year.

Terry is a fun guy to watch... when he's not on your team... my guess is after 25 games we'd have similar complaints about Terry that we do about Rubio and Exum.
 
I don't know why you guys are questioning Rozier while comparing him to Rubio. They are two completely different players.

Rubio is better at running the offense, is an above average defender and is average everywhere else.

Rozier is better at shooting, better at defending, and average everywhere else.

If you stick with Rubio, you keep him to run the offense. If you get Rozier, you get him to play off of Mitchell who runs the offense. This comes down more to Mitchell's role than Rubio vs Rozier. It all depends on what you want Mitchell to do and how we best support him. Rozier supports a Mitchell led offense better than Rubio. And Rozier is a better defender.
 
Rozier is a better catch and shoot 3 guy. The defense is a bit nebulous and I don't think he is meaningfully better than Rubio. The catch and shoot difference is not as much as you think... at least last year.

Both guys aren't good at shooting off the dribble... so if we use Terry as ball handler I think the results might not be better than Rubio. He isn't the passer Rubio is.

If we want just an off ball shooter we can do better. He's not a creator... or at least he isn't good at it. If we want DM to do more ball handling we can do that now and live with Rubio's 38% catch and shoot 3 pointer vs. Rozier's 40%. We keep our pick and don't cause a shakeup to the roster that may leave both Ricky and Dante going WTF.

I think the idea that some have of Terry is much better than the actual player. Even his playoff Scary Terry run wasn't like amazing... he was 16 pts. 5.5 assists and 5 rebounds on 41/35 shooting splits. TS was below league average. He doesn't get to the FT line and he isn't good at the rim. I don't see it... I don't think its dumb because there are guys like Tony Jones that think it'd work... per his tweets, but Tony is not a Rubio guy.
 
Too bad we couldn’t steal Fred VanVleet. He’s becoming one of my favorite non-Jazz players
 
NAOS said:
Yeah, his stats don’t pop, but the dude passes a ton of eyeball tests. Great motor.
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He's had a slow shooting start... but I think he picks it up. He tore us up, but it seems every pick and roll ball handler scores a million points on us this year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Rozier is a better catch and shoot 3 guy. The defense is a bit nebulous and I don't think he is meaningfully better than Rubio. The catch and shoot difference is not as much as you think... at least last year.

Both guys aren't good at shooting off the dribble... so if we use Terry as ball handler I think the results might not be better than Rubio. He isn't the passer Rubio is.

If we want just an off ball shooter we can do better. He's not a creator... or at least he isn't good at it. If we want DM to do more ball handling we can do that now and live with Rubio's 38% catch and shoot 3 pointer vs. Rozier's 40%. We keep our pick and don't cause a shakeup to the roster that may leave both Ricky and Dante going WTF.

I think the idea that some have of Terry is much better than the actual player. Even his playoff Scary Terry run wasn't like amazing... he was 16 pts. 5.5 assists and 5 rebounds on 41/35 shooting splits. TS was below league average. He doesn't get to the FT line and he isn't good at the rim. I don't see it... I don't think its dumb because there are guys like Tony Jones that think it'd work... per his tweets, but Tony is not a Rubio guy.
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I respect what you and Cy are saying about Rozier. And this is a good breakdown of why Rozier might not be all that he's cracked up to be by some.

I just feel that Rubio and Rozier are comparable at this point and time. Considering how much time Rubio has had to play vs how much time Rozier has played, I think that's more a positive for Rozier than Rubio. Think about it, Rubio is in his 8th NBA season primarily as a starter. Last season was the only season in his career where he averaged over 11.1 per game. He is a career 32% 3pt and 38% FG shooter. Through his career, he has averaged 31 minutes per game. The most important stat - he has had one great season in his career: the 2nd half of the 2016-17 season with Minnesota and 2nd half of the 2017-18 season with us. That's it. Other than that, he's been very pedestrian.

To me, Mitchell and Exum are the future backcourt of this team. Mitchell will handle the ball and Exum will primarily defend. Grayson will be a great guard off the bench but not exceptional at anything. For me, we need a "spark plug" type of guy who can start in some situations but maybe just be a very good 6th man. Ideally, it would be Burks, but his defense, ability to stay healthy and ability to stay focused are concerning.

We are spending less than $18 million the next 2 years on all three of Exum, Grayson and Mitchell. Why not take a chance on a guy who isn't max level quality but gives us the scoring punch we desperately need at times?
 
LoPo said:
I respect what you and Cy are saying about Rozier. And this is a good breakdown of why Rozier might not be all that he's cracked up to be by some.

I just feel that Rubio and Rozier are comparable at this point and time. Considering how much time Rubio has had to play vs how much time Rozier has played, I think that's more a positive for Rozier than Rubio. Think about it, Rubio is in his 8th NBA season primarily as a starter. Last season was the only season in his career where he averaged over 11.1 per game. He is a career 32% 3pt and 38% FG shooter. Through his career, he has averaged 31 minutes per game. The most important stat - he has had one great season in his career: the 2nd half of the 2016-17 season with Minnesota and 2nd half of the 2017-18 season with us. That's it. Other than that, he's been very pedestrian.

To me, Mitchell and Exum are the future backcourt of this team. Mitchell will handle the ball and Exum will primarily defend. Grayson will be a great guard off the bench but not exceptional at anything. For me, we need a "spark plug" type of guy who can start in some situations but maybe just be a very good 6th man. Ideally, it would be Burks, but his defense, ability to stay healthy and ability to stay focused are concerning.

We are spending less than $18 million the next 2 years on all three of Exum, Grayson and Mitchell. Why not take a chance on a guy who isn't max level quality but gives us the scoring punch we desperately need at times?
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If you are saying let Rubio walk and sign Terry in the offseason to a reasonable deal then okay I see why someone would be interested. But if we are talking trade now and then re-sign I'm 100% out. I would not sign Terry to what it would take to get him from whatever team he is on. I don't see any value. I'm fine with Rubio not being the answer, but I'd honestly rather roll with Grayson/Dante/DM at PG than give Terry money.

He's a little older than someone I'd consider a development guy. I just think he's an okay player and doesn't solve the issues you think he does. I'm sure as hell not giving up a pick for him. I guess that is why.
 
If you want a pop in scoring and a guy who is more off ball then call NY about Hardaway. Only a year older than Terry and actually does what you are describing. Not a terrible defender and is locked into a contract that may look better than Terry's. NY would likely give us something to take the deal... why not?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If you want a pop in scoring and a guy who is more off ball then call NY about Hardaway. Only a year older than Terry and actually does what you are describing. Not a terrible defender and is locked into a contract that may look better than Terry's. NY would likely give us something to take the deal... why not?
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Taking on that deal takes the Jazz out of any FAs. I chalk Hardaway's hot start to just being on a hot streak. Extremely streaky and expensive. Jazz were clearly unwilling to pay Hood that type of money, don't see why they would take Hardaway.
 
MDAV28 said:
Taking on that deal takes the Jazz out of any FAs. I chalk Hardaway's hot start to just being on a hot streak. Extremely streaky and expensive. Jazz were clearly unwilling to pay Hood that type of money, don't see why they would take Hardaway.
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I'm joking... but wanted an example of a guy we could get that does the thing Rozier would supposedly do that would absolutely be available. That is the type of contract you sign in FA that causes other teams to not match... that is what Terry will get if he changes teams.

I would also think those that like Terry would love Tim... but there is likely a very different opinion of his game.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm joking... but wanted an example of a guy we could get that does the thing Rozier would supposedly do that would absolutely be available. That is the type of contract you sign in FA that causes other teams to not match... that is what Terry will get if he changes teams.

I would also think those that like Terry would love Tim... but there is likely a very different opinion of his game.
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Oh gotcha. Yeah Hardaway is definitely more of that pure scorer that brings nothing else to the table. I think Terry is a little more well-rounded, which is definitely the type of player the Jazz prefer, but probably a worse shooter and scorer. But I see your point. I wouldn't touch Hardaway's deal and I wouldn't touch Terry unless it was for a middling asset or an important guard on our roster were to get hurt.
 
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