If the Jazz Lose Hill in free agency...

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Tom Pitt, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Tom Pitt

    Tom Pitt Well-Known Member

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    George Hill might not be as good as we think is and what I mean by that is Jazz fans have been watching such garbage point guard play for the past 6-7 years, that when he arrived on the court to run the show, he was practically radiating competence. I already have stories queued up to tell my grandchildren about the first time I saw George Hill in a Jazz uniform. Some of them start with "When George Hill stepped out onto the floor for the very first time, verily I say unto you rainbows protruded from his nether regions and his vintage shown like unto the glory of the sun..." Relative to previous humans to man the controls, he was like freakin John Stockton incarnate. It was unusual! Or perhaps about damn time ( *Pounds his fist on the desk*) that the Jazz had something at the position that made you feel some semblance of confidence.

    With all that said, George Hill is really good at playing basketball and the Jazz need him or someone on his level. A little bit of incompetence on the floor from any one position can be endured, provided you have really good to elite talent elsewhere (see the Jazz of '97 and '98 as Exhibit A and B) but unless you have Lebron James or Michael Jordan, incompetence at the point guard is not so easily endurable.

    If the Jazz lose Hill in the offseason, they're still pretty talented but without adequate pg play they are a ship without a rudder in western seas storming with elite star power and up and coming teams. Dante could improve and grow into that role, but you're investing a lot in hope if you see Dante as the answer, especially if you are looking at next season in a vacuum, which is exactly the thing Hayward might do when he's wined and dined this summer by teams whose future, may at that time, seem brighter than that of Utah's. I'm a Jazz lifer; I'll be here for the duration of my lifespan and as much as I want to sprinkle some bias on the current situation, I can't really do so with impunity, not with jiminey Cricket beating on my ear drums. So I'll just say it as clearly as I can. If our point guard play is bottom 5 next season, Even if Hayward stays, It's a step backward and that sucks. If this season has taught us anything, its that the Jazz are really good when Hayward Gobert and Hill are on the floor together. Sans Hill, they are sort of good sometimes and sort of bad sometimes but mostly just pedestrian. Perhaps the biggest issue is our offense stalls out for minutes at a time; hell it stalls out at times even with George, but not nearly as much. The cerebral aspects of his game along with his basketball gravitas is more often whats needed to grease the wheels and get the offense purring again.

    If I were Hayward, and I saw Hill was on his way out the door this offseason, I'd definitely consider looking elsewhere to cement my legacy. Before this season, Hayward had played his whole career with either incompetent point guard play (I guess Devin Harris was sort of competent)or with a point guard who was an a**hole. At some point its gotta get tiring, shouldering all the weight. At least he knows he's got Rudy and Quin but in the end I think Hayward has to believe they have a chance to be one of the best in the conference for him to stay.

    And by the way, even if Hill stays, Jazz will be paying 20-30 million a year for a guy that's not top 10 at his position, thereby shrinking your ability to keep current Jazz up and comers or attain interested high level Free agents in the future. I guess even if the Jazz lose Hill in FA, they could look elsewhere, but I'm not so confident in whats out there... Really think Hayward wants to play with DWill again? Jrue Holiday? You and I both know the Pelicans front office is dumb enough to overpay him and likely will.

    All I've gotta say, its gonna be an interesting offseason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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  2. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Like one of my kids being terminally ill... not something I want to think about.
     
  3. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    I'm sure the Jazz ran the numbers and worked out various scenarios. If they had to, they could probably trade Favors (with or without a pick) during the off-season to net a PG that isn't as old and isn't as expensive as Hill on a max extension. Don't ask me who that PG is--though we know Phoenix likes Favors and might possibly be willing to move Bledsoe on draft day. That would leave the Jazz money to keep the rest of their guys without being completely painted into a corner financially.
     
  4. SCS

    SCS Well-Known Member

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    I said trading for him was a bad move long-term when we did it. He's a good player on the court. But from a long-term cap standpoint it was a bad move. And from a trade standpoint giving up a lottery pick for a guy you could lose after one year when you are still building isn't smart. But almost everyone here had rose colored glasses on.
     
  5. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    This is the same reason Mike Conley is the highest paying NBA player at the moment....
     
  6. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

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    It was the reason I was so vehemently critical of the trade. However, I think the Jazz would have zero chance of keeping Hayward if they were fighting for the 8th seed with an Exum, Mack and Neto rotation.
    The risk had to be taken. Unfortunately, Hill has played too well and apparently wants a fortune on his final contract. I'm sure DL may have been willing to overpay for 3 years. My guess is Hill wants a 4yr deal.
     
  7. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    One positive thing about the trade is it shows Hayward that the FO is committed to putting the best players available around him to compete. This extension may have fall apart but it's clear that it's hardly the Jazz's fault - the Hill camp is clearly after 'out of this world' type contract.
     
  8. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

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    I'm hoping it's just a 3yr vs. 4yr issue and Utah can still re-sign him. Really need to get Gordon committed at 12:01 on free agent day.
     
  9. MT Steve

    MT Steve Well-Known Member Contributor

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    lol

    At least wait and see if we actually lose him before breaking out the I told you so's.

    Odds are still very good that he stays, by all accounts.
     
  10. ♪alt13

    ♪alt13 Well-Known Member

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    It can't be just a year thing there has to be an issue per year $. If they agree that Hill is worth 22 per than Hill would be looking at 88 million in new money this summer. Same deal per year now would give him 79.5 million in new money but 1 less year. Does Hill think that he will be worth more or less than 8.5 in 3 years? I'm going to guess he thinks he could sign at least a short deal worth 20+ per in 3 years and that 8.5 is likely his floor.
     
  11. SCS

    SCS Well-Known Member

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    Even if he stays at 20-25 mill per year it's still a negative. The team would be in a terrible cap situation. And this team still isn't where we need it to be so that we can consistently compete for championships. It's not the time to be way over the cap.
     
  12. Release the Kraken

    Release the Kraken Well-Known Member

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    I'm not one that's going to agree that it was a bad trade to bring George Hill onboard. Particularly since we are 25-9 when he is in the lineup and 12-1 with all starters healthy. This is our best season in seven years and Johovah Hill as he has been referred to has been a huge part of that. Taurean Prince ain't done squat and I can't think of anyone (maybe you can) that would have been available at #12 that could have had the impact that Hill had for us. Am I happy that he and his camp are stonewalling us and taking us down the free agency trail? Absolutely not, particularly given the nagging injuries that have kept him off the court for extended periods but it is what it is.

    If I was running the show, I'd use the salary floor money to sign Brandon Jennings or Marcello Huertas and Andrew Bogut or Terrence Jones (waive Neto and Withey) as a message to Hill and Favors, but also as a contingency plan. As Pitt said above, we really don't know what another veteran point guard could do for us because we haven't had any to compare against. As it is we're being strong armed because we don't presently have anybody on our roster that can do what Hill and Favors do for us. Doesn't mean that person or persons isn't out there though. I'd just like to cut into their leverage as well as be prepared in case of further time missed on the court.

    PS Jennings has subsequently made a verbal agreement to sign with the Wizards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  13. Quin's Murderface

    Quin's Murderface Well-Known Member

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    edit: [MENTION=4696]SCS[/MENTION]

    I think you have a good point here, but the problem is that they have to have Hayward re-sign. He said that winning was his #1 priority, and I think we can all see that without Hill this team is maybe just barely a playoff team. I think all your other points are legitimate. It's too bad the Jazz didn't extend Hayward so that they had one more year before the pressure was on to make sure he stays. I think that was the big mistake they made.
     
  14. tleikheen

    tleikheen Well-Known Member

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    If winning is Haywards #1 concern then he's not going anywhere.With a healthy 24 year old Gobert patrolling the paint and gobbling up rebounds left and right.Jazz are going to be in the thick of things every year.Also Hayward gets to see if Favors is going to get back to 100%,he's only 25.Gobert and Favors healthy form a dominating frontline .Really why would Hayward walk away from that
     
  15. Diamond77

    Diamond77 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Hill is irreplaceable. I don't want the Jazz to overpay to keep him for the long term.
     
  16. MT Steve

    MT Steve Well-Known Member Contributor

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    If we hadn't ever traded for Hill, we'd be staring at the 7th seed, a sweep by the Spurs, and Hayward leaving.

    For how much better Hill makes us, paying him is worth it, as it'll also likely ensure Hayward stays. The only reason to be against the Hill trade at this point is if you're in favor of blowing the team up or if you have an unrealistic perception of what we could get in the FA market with that cap space.
     
  17. Diamond77

    Diamond77 Well-Known Member

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    If the Jazz lose Hill in free agency they could try to take Teague that will be unrestricted free agent! ehehe
     
  18. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

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    I'd target Jrue Holiday before Teague. Not a big Teague fan. If we couldnt get Jrue I'd just go the cheaper route and get Collison or Williams as a backup.
     
  19. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    A team would probably need to be in win-now mode in order to want to max out George Hill. There aren't very many other teams in win-now mode who need Hill as their starting PG. Spurs maybe? Denver? Pelicans if they lose Jrue. The Bulls or Detroit could come into play maybe if they're in win-now mode.

    GSW (Curry)
    SAS (??)
    HOU (Harden)
    LAC (Paul)
    MEM (Conley)
    OKC (Westbrook)

    CLE (Kyrie)
    BOS (IT)
    TOR (Lowry)
    WAS (Wall)
    ATL (Schroeder?)
    IND (Teague)
    CHI (??)
    DET (??)
     
  20. ozjazzman

    ozjazzman Active Member

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    If we absolutely have to lose him, atleast try to trade him for some kind of first round pick this year.
    Isn't this years draft loaded with PG's that potentially will become stars in a few ?
    Otherwise, do what needs to be done to get Collision.
    Potentially another option may be trade Burks for some extra $ in the bank to pay Hill and Hayward.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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