If whites moved out of the US.....

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lol why do people even open this thread?

 

[Stoked]

I see a fine disconnect (or maybe I am just splitting hairs and am going full idiot) between Log and Dala.

No there are not governmental programs geared towards whites over blacks, IMO. However their are frequent, constant instances of misusing the programs in a way that negatively (sometimes to an exxtreme) affects minorities. Like Dala referenced with the criminal justice system.

So I do not think the programs are designed to be biased against minorities. That doesn't mean that the bias doesn't exist.

So I am half and half on this fine point. I think the problem is societal but to such an extent that it permiates governmental programs along with everything else. I do think that some limited effort has been made by the government to go the other way. Specifically Affirmative Action. But I think that is a salt ridden band aid on a shot gun wound.

 

[Stoked]

Lol why do people even open this thread?

Bye Felicia

 

[Stoked]

I am a minority that grew up in a rough town (Toledo, OH). My sisters didn't fair as well as I did, as they are convicted felons and had babies before 18, etc. We are a stereotypical, broken, single mom, interracial family.

I've learned over and over and over again, that no one cares about me. Not the government, not dalamon, not anyone on MSNBC or FOX. We all have our motivations and crosses to bare.

Until you decide to fix yourself, your life will never change.

It's funny, because in a lot of ways I did it right. I got out and am semi-"successful". But, in a lot of ways, I'm the problem, because I have no desire to go back and help. I know what it is like in those neighborhoods. I know what it would be like for my kids. And I have no desire for them to know that reality. I tried to give back after school and we stayed in Philly and it's wasn't good for me and my family. So we left.

I'd much rather have my kids talking about change on message boards with no clue as to what they are talking about. Life is better that way.

At the end of the day, nothing will change until the individuals change. As long as we rely on someone else to fix our problem, the problem will remain.

I agree that change must start on an individual level. For all of us. We all have things we could change about our actions, thoughts and beliefs. With enough individuals changing then a gradual societal change starts to take affect. Then that finally gets into the institutions.

But people are lazy and uninterested as Green himself admits.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I would choose Nevada. Specifically, Reno. Great place to live. I really miss it.

poitn i was tyriig to make. is if the non whites choose the 10-11 richest state. and leave the rest to the whites.
which one did u think will be better off?

 

[DutchJazzer]

I see a fine disconnect (or maybe I am just splitting hairs and am going full idiot) between Log and Dala.

No there are not governmental programs geared towards whites over blacks, IMO. However their are frequent, constant instances of misusing the programs in a way that negatively (sometimes to an exxtreme) affects minorities. Like Dala referenced with the criminal justice system.

So I do not think the programs are designed to be biased against minorities. That doesn't mean that the bias doesn't exist.

So I am half and half on this fine point. I think the problem is societal but to such an extent that it permiates governmental programs along with everything else. I do think that some limited effort has been made by the government to go the other way. Specifically Affirmative Action. But I think that is a salt ridden band aid on a shot gun wound.

isnt the bias of the criminal justice system more about economical resources.
like rich black men rarely go to jail.
whites on avg have more economical sources.

also another factor is 1 parent households, those produce more criminals on avg then 2 parents household. blacks have more 1 parent households.

ofcourse also location. eg "ghetto" more blacks live in ghetto then non blacks.

i dont think the justice system is biased towards a race. and thge perceived biases is due to other factors

 

[Stoked]

isnt the bias of the criminal justice system more about economical resources.
like rich black men rarely go to jail.
whites on avg have more economical sources.

also another factor is 1 parent households, those produce more criminals on avg then 2 parents household. blacks have more 1 parent households.

ofcourse also location. eg "ghetto" more blacks live in ghetto then non blacks.

i dont think the justice system is biased towards a race. and thge perceived biases is due to other factors

I'd say no based on a comparison of the sentencing for the same crime among poor whites and poor blacks.

So sure resources play a role. No problem is one dimensional like that. But race is also a huge factor.

The jsutice system itself is not. But those in it are.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I am cringing way the **** hard.


If all the whites left, it would be reasonable to conclude that the blacks would try to change American society into a society that did not insitutionally discriminate against their own race. Posts and opinions like these merely sedate Americans, and prevent them from coming to terms with America's very real race problem.

I disagree. Without whites, some dominant group would eventually emerge, and this group (as whites have done, and all power structure do) would then begin the process of setting up system rules that would benefit them at the expense of others.

A little history lesson. Early in US history, it was popular to advocate returning freed slaves back to Africa. So under President Monroe, a number of free blacks emigrated to what is now Liberia (thus the name of its capital 'Monrovia'). On arriving in Africa, the freed slaves began a process of subjugating the natives and setting themselves up into power, which they continued to hold for centuries.

Travel through Africa, and you'll see the same. Oppression still exists thanks to the machinations of those in power who do all they can to remain in power. Plus, society in many cases is separated into tribal identity/affiliation, in which tribes compete for the spoils of power and systematically work to better their position at the expense of the other tribes.

Humans are hard wired to be tribal, it seems. If all the whites left, sh** would still happen, but take a different form.

This in no way, though, excuses the whites for centuries of oppression of blacks in this country.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'd say no based on a comparison of the sentencing for the same crime among poor whites and poor blacks.

So sure resources play a role. No problem is one dimensional like that. But race is also a huge factor.

The jsutice system itself is not. But those in it are.

comparison of sentencing also is how good your lawyer is aka how much money u spent.
from public defendant to Johny Cockroach or Cochran whatever his name is.
the more u shell out for a lawyer the better sentencing will be.
i truly believe this unless there is some stat around there for example that factors in lawyer expenses and avg sentence

 

[Stoked]

comparison of sentencing also is how good your lawyer is aka how much money u spent.
from public defendant to Johny Cockroach or Cochran whatever his name is.
the more u shell out for a lawyer the better sentencing will be.
i truly believe this unless there is some stat around there for example that factors in lawyer expenses and avg sentence

In this comparison we would be looking at people of similar financial means. That would to an extent equalize the competency of their lawyers.

If you want to dismiss it then fine. I don't.

 

[DutchJazzer]

In this comparison we would be looking at people of similar financial means. That would to an extent equalize the competency of their lawyers.

If you want to dismiss it then fine. I don't.

yes we would. cus lets face it the more u spend on a lawyer the less your sentence will be. if u spent enough you might not spent a single night in prison.
not really financial means. because if given 2 examples
for example
a guy is caught with drugs he has 0 financial means he is a student.
in case a his family does not support him or does not have the mean to. he gets a public defender.

B another student with 0 financial means and is also a student gets caught with exact same way.
but this time his family gets together and pays for a laywer.

which would get less or more time served.

financial means might not give the whole picture


Edit: simple differnece between public defender and expensive laywer.
is hiring a psychologist or something like that to analyze the jury. so when its time to eliminate/select jurrors they get the more favorable Jury.

 

[Beer]

I am cringing way the **** hard.


If all the whites left, it would be reasonable to conclude that the blacks would try to change American society into a society that did not insitutionally discriminate against their own race. Posts and opinions like these merely sedate Americans, and prevent them from coming to terms with America's very real race problem.

Ummm, I think America would just turn into Africa. Not that white society doesn't contribute to the problem, but at some point you gotta take control of your own life. To think that white america is the problem with black america is one of the stupidest thoughts one can have.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I disagree. Without whites, some dominant group would eventually emerge, and this group (as whites have done, and all power structure do) would then begin the process of setting up system rules that would benefit them at the expense of others.

This is word for word in agreement with my post-- not sure why you think it's a point of disagreement

A little history lesson. Early in US history, it was popular to advocate returning freed slaves back to Africa. So under President Monroe, a number of free blacks emigrated to what is now Liberia (thus the name of its capital 'Monrovia'). On arriving in Africa, the freed slaves began a process of subjugating the natives and setting themselves up into power, which they continued to hold for centuries.

Travel through Africa, and you'll see the same. Oppression still exists thanks to the machinations of those in power who do all they can to remain in power. Plus, society in many cases is separated into tribal identity/affiliation, in which tribes compete for the spoils of power and systematically work to better their position at the expense of the other tribes.

Humans are hard wired to be tribal, it seems. If all the whites left, sh** would still happen, but take a different form.

See above-- and let's not ignore the impacts of colonialism throughout Africa.

This in no way, though, excuses the whites for centuries of oppression of blacks in this country.

Yup



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[Deleted member 848]

Ummm, I think America would just turn into Africa.

You might wanna do some reading into how colonialism of European powers absolutely butt-****ed Africa, and still does to this day (literally too many examples to list, but you can start with Rwanda).

Not that white society doesn't contribute to the problem, but at some point you gotta take control of your own life. To think that white america is the problem with black america is one of the stupidest thoughts one can have.

An attitude like this perpetuates the existence of different starting points, and levels of adversity that a young black and white male are dealt.


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[RandyForRubio]

So let's say we had a place full of one race...they kinda get their own laws, they get monthly assistance from the government, pretty much free housing, pretty much free education due to large amounts of government scholarships...and there are still major problems. Let's say those problems are poverty, incest, rape, alcohol and drug abuse...is that the governments fault for not doing more, or the people's faults themselves? What more do they need?

 

[Beer]

You might wanna do some reading into how colonialism of European powers absolutely butt-****ed Africa, and still does to this day (literally too many examples to list, but you can start with Rwanda).



An attitude like this perpetuates the existence of different starting points, and levels of adversity that a young black and white male are dealt.


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They are dealt a disadvantage, both from white America and from black America. You cannot honestly think that the oppressive white male is what is the main factor keeping black America down? Is it contributing to the problem? Of course it is. But I do not believe for 1 second that if all the white were to leave that black America would get its **** together. The problems run very deep. There are 2 main issues imo.

1. Lack of any sort of a family structure. Young black women getting pregnant, the dad being completely our of the picture and the kids end up raising themselves. (This is their own fault)
2. Absurd drug laws putting way to many of them in prison for way to long. Making it harder for them to get back on their feet or get on their feet in the first place. (this is white Americas fault)

 

[Stoked]

So let's say we had a place full of one race...they kinda get their own laws, they get monthly assistance from the government, pretty much free housing, pretty much free education due to large amounts of government scholarships...and there are still major problems. Let's say those problems are poverty, incest, rape, alcohol and drug abuse...is that the governments fault for not doing more, or the people's faults themselves? What more do they need?

For me it makes me think of two things:

1. That there are fundamental problems within that community. (I have pointed out many specifics before)

2. That while these programs exist they are still at a daily disadvantage. For example: two equal candidates apply for the same job and are equally qualified, one is white and one is black. It is proven that the white applicant gets the job more often than not. Another example: enforcement of drug laws when comparing blacks to whites.

So the fault, IMO, is absolutely shared but for different reasons. Both (all) sides have ground shaking, fundamental corrections that need to be made.

 

[Harambe]

Anyone remember Dave Chapelle's race draft?

Now that was some funny s***

 

[LogGrad98]

Lol why do people even open this thread?

I don't know, why did you?

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, other than allowing the perpetuation and existence of black suffrage without proposing any systemic changes across America.



The problem became societal because of government policy. You simply cannot separate the two, as both are incredibly interrelated phenomena. Our current perception of black people is very much a reflection of the government policy of our forefathers, and the rights/dignity/stigma given to black people over the span of centuries. Things like government mandates to strap body-cams, or sanctions to police stations found committing white-on-black officer crime are government interventions that could help curtail our existent societal racism (and I'm not politician-- these are only a couple of examples)





Dude, again: the whole reason the interviewer has race factoring into his decision is because the decades-long racist governments of North America. The last thing we want to do is acknowledge that many of our policies now favour all people equally, consider America post-racial, and call people lazy when they criticize a still-racist America.

I do think America has, and continues to take huge huge strides in addressing racism-- now, while we let our current generations of black folk try to heal their wounds of cruelly-racist policy that only existed 50 years ago, here are a couple racist things, off the top of my head, that we can currently address from a governmental standpoint:

1) Criminal justice system & legal sentencing. The differences in sentences of equal crimes between whites and blacks can be found all over google. So can the inconsistency of the CJS (in many other aspects) across different racial groups.
2) Housing-- both current an historically, with the impacts still being existent to this day (blacks got a minute percentage of allocated government housing, with repercussions still current). Look into the history of the FHA, and it's current ramifications. Residential discrimination is a huge one (with blockbusting, redlining, mortgage discrimination) that the government could play a role in addressing, but hasn't one so with any effectivity.
3) Racial profiling, which is institutionalized to varying extents

I don't buy your 3 arguments. There is nothing officially sanctioned that causes #1, I want to see numbers to prove #2, and #3 is a societal thing again, as in the people doing it, nothing sanctioned by the government. So for all the rhetoric you got nothing.

So let's talk about attempts at systemic change. Amended the actual constitution to address equal rights. Established the non-discrimination clauses. Affirmative action. Just off the top of my head. Yeah, no attempt whatsoever at systemic changes. If you remove your blinders for a while you might see more than you think is there.