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Is Isiah Collier finally our new Stockton?

underdog said:
What a ridiculous post. You're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't know what a rookie means (and want to evaluate Collier), you should look up the stats for all the past and current NBA players when they had just turned 20 and had played less than five months in the NBA.
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I would say comparing Collier to Stockton is a bit like comparing apples to inter-galactic space travel.

Collier does 1½ things well: passing & fast break offense. And yes, any rookie that would be deemed good in all aspects of the game is probably a generational superstar.

However, expecting said rookie to take massive leaps in long-range shooting, mid-range shooting, free throws, overall defense (at 6'2" in today's NBA) and a few other things is quite the stretch.

Did you look up any stats? Because I doubt you did.

Let's take a look at some young star PGs in the league and their rookie seasons:
Trae 19/8 with better shooting
Cunningham 17/6/6 with better shooting
Haliburton 13/5 with much, much better shooting (pretty much his career averages as a rookie)

And not one of those dudes is John Stockton, nowhere near to becoming John Stockton. Hell yeah, they're star players and Collier coming even close to any of them would be a jackpot for the Jazz.

Also, any comparison to Stockton is just silly because of the difference in eras. Stockton was a bench player until age 25. In today's NBA if you're stuck as a back-up PG playing 20 minutes at 25, your most probable routes are: journeyman playing for 8 different teams / Kris Dunn and having to claw your way back as a specialist / Europe.
 
Tanktastic said:
I would say comparing Collier to Stockton is a bit like comparing apples to inter-galactic space travel.

Collier does 1½ things well: passing & fast break offense. And yes, any rookie that would be deemed good in all aspects of the game is probably a generational superstar.

However, expecting said rookie to take massive leaps in long-range shooting, mid-range shooting, free throws, overall defense (at 6'2" in today's NBA) and a few other things is quite the stretch.

Did you look up any stats? Because I doubt you did.

Let's take a look at some young star PGs in the league and their rookie seasons:
Trae 19/8 with better shooting
Cunningham 17/6/6 with better shooting
Haliburton 13/5 with much, much better shooting (pretty much his career averages as a rookie)

And not one of those dudes is John Stockton, nowhere near to becoming John Stockton. Hell yeah, they're star players and Collier coming even close to any of them would be a jackpot for the Jazz.

Also, any comparison to Stockton is just silly because of the difference in eras. Stockton was a bench player until age 25. In today's NBA if you're stuck as a back-up PG playing 20 minutes at 25, your most probable routes are: journeyman playing for 8 different teams / Kris Dunn and having to claw your way back as a specialist / Europe.
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Lol. I didn’t compare Collier with anyone. But you compared him with the current NBA players, regardless of how long they’ve played in the NBA. Like with all rookies, this isn’t complicated. What Collier will become depends on how he develops (in his case, mostly his shooting). And we don’t know that yet.
 
underdog said:
Lol. I didn’t compare Collier with anyone. But you compared him with the current NBA players, regardless of how long they’ve played in the NBA.
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Did you somehow miss the title of this thread and what this thread is about? Hint: comparing Collier to Stockton.

And dude, you told me to look up stats for other players! I did. Shouldn't I have? When you told me to?
 
Tanktastic said:
Did you somehow miss the title of this thread and what this thread is about? Hint: comparing Collier to Stockton.

And dude, you told me to look up stats for other players! I did. Shouldn't I have? When you told me to?
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Can't you read? I didn't compare Collier to anyone. I just said your post was ridiculous and explained why. I also asked you to look up stats for all the players so you'd understand what a rookie means.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Tantastik... are you watching the games? His stats were around 341 out of 342 players in the league through the end of December.

His stats January and February have been impressive. February was better than January.

The trend matters because it shows the growth people see when they watch the games.
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Eh, just let him sulk.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Tantastik... are you watching the games? His stats were around 341 out of 342 players in the league through the end of December.
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Yes, exactly. And the stats backed up what everyone was seeing. But now, after a decent (still shooting awfully) month he's John Stockton?

underdog said:
I also asked you to look up stats for all the players so you'd understand what a rookie means.
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You look up the stats for the first 3000 NBA players and once you're done with that I can check out the last 2000.
 
Since Stockton?

Um no.

There was another PG we had who played in the mid 2000s who was an incredible playmaker. This guy could create, pass, and score. Hes still one of the most entertaining players to watch highlights of because the offense he helped lead was beautiful. If collier ends up being half the player he was then we got a steal.
 
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