Is the projected core FATALLY FLAWED?

[Stifle Tower]

Many of us, and I admit I was slow to agree, saw the DWill, Boozer, Okur, AK and Harpring team as fatally flawed, namely because certain players couldn't play defense, while others had questionable fortitude.

I see the same outcome for this group, but flawed because the defense cannot ever compensate for the horrific offensive. Jazz have one player who is worthless on offense unless he gets lobs or offensive rebounds (Gobert). Favors is good inside and has decent range, out to 15-18 feet or so. Hayward has a bit more, but is not really a 3PT threat (36% on 5 attempts/per). In fact, the Jazz have ZERO players shooting 40% or better from behind the arc. I think Hood has that potential, though. As for PG's, yes, Exum WILL likely be an improvement over the trio that is currently getting minutes. But let's not forget he shot 35%/31% and is coming off a terrible injury.

Hate to say it, but I don't see the Exum, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert lineup as being all that special. They'll never contend.

 

[Maneesh]

Many of us, and I admit I was slow to agree, saw the DWill, Boozer, Okur, AK and Harpring team as fatally flawed, namely because certain players couldn't play defense, while others had questionable fortitude.

I see the same outcome for this group, but flawed because the defense cannot ever compensate for the horrific offensive. Jazz have one player who is worthless on offense unless he gets lobs or offensive rebounds (Gobert). Favors is good inside and has decent range, out to 15-18 feet or so. Hayward has a bit more, but is not really a 3PT threat (36% on 5 attempts/per). In fact, the Jazz have ZERO players shooting 40% or better from behind the arc. I think Hood has that potential, though. As for PG's, yes, Exum WILL likely be an improvement over the trio that is currently getting minutes. But let's not forget he shot 35%/31% and is coming off a terrible injury.

Hate to say it, but I don't see the Exum, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert lineup as being all that special. They'll never contend.

I have admit to you. You are genius in without shame.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Depends on how well Dante recovers. If he can play defense anywhere close to where he was before, I think it makes a huge difference, enough so that our offense can be sufficient enough to win considerably more games. We also need some better shooting off the bench. As much as we all like Lyles, Utah dropped the ball by passing on Booker. We need our league best defense back and better shooting off the bench. Other than that, luck plays a big part in being able to stay healthy. Just like with every other team.

 

[Getting Traded]

Depends on how well Dante recovers. If he can play defense anywhere close to where he was before, I think it makes a huge difference, enough so that our offense can be sufficient enough to win considerably more games. We also need some better shooting off the bench. As much as we all like Lyles, Utah dropped the ball by passing on Booker. We need our league best defense back and better shooting off the bench. Other than that, luck plays a big part in being able to stay healthy. Just like with every other team.

It sure seemed at the beginning of the year that the Jazz whiffed with Lyles, but he has been coming on and he is showing that he has some skills. Remember, he is very young, so while Booker may have been a better choice, Lyles won't be too shabby either.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz will continue to be a very strong defensive team as they continue to mature physically and gain experience. I agree though that there isn't enough shooting. What we have are a bunch of guys who will share the ball on offense, but are limited in their ability to create and make shots. Last year's final four teams--GSW, Hou, Cle and Atl all had outstanding shooters/scorers. The Jazz need shooters of that caliber to contend.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Devin Booker is a skilled shooter for sure, but his lack of defense and rebounding at the SG spot wouldn't help our cause. If he played the 1 next to Hood and Hayward, that might work.

The Trey Burke draft was a real whiff in the sense that we brought in a coach one year later whose system doesn't really call for a traditional PG...notwithstanding the fact that Trey Burke isn't a very good traditional PG.

 

[Revolution 9]

The biggest flaw is that Hayward is the number 1 option, and it requires all 5 players in the core to be healthy.

Exum - Hood - Hayward - Favors - Gobert is a good line up. Enough to compete 4-5 in the west.
The problem is they cant lose anyone, and still maintain. Since we don't have a star on the team,
we rely on the sum of the parts.

One flat tire, and the car doesn't drive so pretty.

 

[kabenac]

Gobert and Exum are definitely part of the core. Hood needs to develop consistency. I'm not sold on Hayward as he'll never be a star. Maybe he would play better as the second option but without that luxury he's too inconsistent. I like Favors but feel like he's not reaching his full potential. I think he needs a killer instinct and to be more aggressive offensively.

Wish we had a LeBron or Durant-quality star.

 

[veji1]

Many of us, and I admit I was slow to agree, saw the DWill, Boozer, Okur, AK and Harpring team as fatally flawed, namely because certain players couldn't play defense, while others had questionable fortitude.

I see the same outcome for this group, but flawed because the defense cannot ever compensate for the horrific offensive. Jazz have one player who is worthless on offense unless he gets lobs or offensive rebounds (Gobert). Favors is good inside and has decent range, out to 15-18 feet or so. Hayward has a bit more, but is not really a 3PT threat (36% on 5 attempts/per). In fact, the Jazz have ZERO players shooting 40% or better from behind the arc. I think Hood has that potential, though. As for PG's, yes, Exum WILL likely be an improvement over the trio that is currently getting minutes. But let's not forget he shot 35%/31% and is coming off a terrible injury.

Hate to say it, but I don't see the Exum, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert lineup as being all that special. They'll never contend.

Probably, but it doesn't mean developping the team as much as possible isn't the right thing to do : You developp your young team, take it as far as you can BUT know that it can't go further and are ready to swing for the fences when a deal becomes available.

Say we miss the POs by little this year, get another late lottery pick, play out next year and make it to the POs with the 6th seed, a defensive juggernaut but still these offense issues. Than if you can find a good trade for one (or more) of your good young players for some players better fitting than you do it. Maybe you trade Favors for a stretch 4, maybe you trade Gobert for a very good PG with great shooting, maybe you trade Hayward for a sharpshooter, etc.

But thinking in terms of "fatally flawed" is dangerous because then it makes you think "well let's blow it up, it won't work anyway"... it's isn't like that : the Celtics kept doing there best with their young team (Jefferson, Green, and the old Pierce) until they could trade for Garnett and Allen !

So yes most probably this team doesnt have what it takes to go deep, but this team is our ONLY bargaining tool to get a better team : developp it, maximize its value so that you can than adjust it / change it to be as good as you can.

 

[Miggs]

Depends on how well Dante recovers. If he can play defense anywhere close to where he was before, I think it makes a huge difference, enough so that our offense can be sufficient enough to win considerably more games. We also need some better shooting off the bench. As much as we all like Lyles, Utah dropped the ball by passing on Booker. We need our league best defense back and better shooting off the bench. Other than that, luck plays a big part in being able to stay healthy. Just like with every other team.

We keep talking as if we're soooooo young and have a huge window.

Curry is just 27, Thompson 26 and Green will be 26 in two days. They're not exactly old. My point is the hypothetical window during which the Dubs will likely start to decline and the Jazz will be at their peak is a small one. Maybe a couple years imo. Obviously injuries could derail this juggernaut long-term. But we don't know that's gonna happen.

 

[fishonjazz]

The biggest flaw is that Hayward is the number 1 option, and it requires all 5 players in the core to be healthy.

Exum - Hood - Hayward - Favors - Gobert is a good line up. Enough to compete 4-5 in the west.
The problem is they cant lose anyone, and still maintain. Since we don't have a star on the team,
we rely on the sum of the parts.

One flat tire, and the car doesn't drive so pretty.

This.
Hayward, favors, hood, Gobert, Burks are good players but none of them are good enough.

We need an offensive star that deserves the max due to offensive capability

 

[veji1]

This.
Hayward, favors, hood, Gobert, Burks are good players but none of them are good enough.

We need an offensive star that deserves the max due to offensive capability

Agreed, but the best chance to get it (outside a Gobert type of draft steal) is to play as well as possible with the current team so that you might find yourself in a position to trade (for example's sake, don't shoot me) Favors and Burks for Kevin Love, hoping for Kevin Love to be able to again be the offensive juggernaut you need him to be while Exum/Gobert and others cover for his defensive weaknesses.

This is purely hypothetical of course, but the best way to get that +++ player is for this team to be as successfull as possible.

 

[fishonjazz]

Agreed, but the best chance to get it (outside a Gobert type of draft steal) is to play as well as possible with the current team so that you might find yourself in a position to trade (for example's sake, don't shoot me) Favors and Burks for Kevin Love, hoping for Kevin Love to be able to again be the offensive juggernaut you need him to be while Exum/Gobert and others cover for his defensive weaknesses.

This is purely hypothetical of course, but the best way to get that +++ player is for this team to be as successfull as possible.

I agree.
I hear that cp3 and kyrie might be on the trade block and we have the assests to aquire them... Possibly without giving up favors, rudy, hayward or hood.

Lyles, exum, 4 firsts in the next two drafts, and Burks is a pretty good amount of assets to work something out

 

[Getting Traded]

CP3 is getting on in age, Kevin Love is overrated, and Kyrie, well let's see how Dante develops -- we really don't know what we have in Dante until we get to see him next year. Yes, the season has been disappointing, mainly because of injuries, and while Rudy is back, he doesn't seem to be 100 percent, physically. Let's just chill a bit and let things play out.

 

[veji1]

CP3 is getting on in age, Kevin Love is overrated, and Kyrie, well let's see how Dante develops -- we really don't know what we have in Dante until we get to see him next year. Yes, the season has been disappointing, mainly because of injuries, and while Rudy is back, he doesn't seem to be 100 percent, physically. Let's just chill a bit and let things play out.

Of course, but no team in the league is going to get Lillard or Davis or someone like that in a trade... When Boston got Garnett he was deemed in decline and Allen was not the same anymore, etc.. My example is just an example but put Love in a team that is really good on D and can not only help mitigate this weakness but motivate him to get better + give him again the ball on O a lot more to help generate doubles and open the floor and it might help your team go one level up compared to what we have. But as you say the important thing is to chill, keep trusting this team an make it grow to its full potential.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I like how you capitalized 'FATALLY FLAWED' it really helped drive home the point of how smart you are and what a SERIOUS issue this is.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I agree.
I hear that cp3 and kyrie might be on the trade block and we have the assests to aquire them... Possibly without giving up favors, rudy, hayward or hood.

Lyles, exum, 4 firsts in the next two drafts, and Burks is a pretty good amount of assets to work something out

In my opinion this is just horrible for the Jazz. I believe Exum will be as good, or better then Kyrie, and cp3 is a little older. This roster isn't flawed no one has reached their prime, and none of the core have finished improving. This is still the 4th youngest roster in the league with a young head coach. That cake is still rising and rising. We will still continue to draft key contributors, and our bench will be pretty damned good in a couple years. Best bench in the league potential. Burks is one of the best bench scorers, and Lyles is going to be ten times the player he is now in a year or two. There won't be a 4 in the league that will be able to stop him on the perimeter. Both Neto and Mack have potential to be one of the better backup pg's in the league. I'm not sure why Coach Q doesn't utilize Whithy off the bench? (My biggest gripe with his coaching) he should be stealing some of Bookers mins.

Getting one of those guys for potentially our best player and all of our depth is a little insane in my view.

 

[fishonjazz]

In my opinion this is just horrible for the Jazz. I believe Exum will be as good, or better then Kyrie, and cp3 is a little older. This roster isn't flawed no one has reached their prime, and none of the core have finished improving. This is still the 4th youngest roster in the league with a young head coach. That cake is still rising and rising. We will still continue to draft key contributors, and our bench will be pretty damned good in a couple years. Best bench in the league potential. Burks is one of the best bench scorers, and Lyles is going to be ten times the player he is now in a year or two. There won't be a 4 in the league that will be able to stop him on the perimeter. Both Neto and Mack have potential to be one of the better backup pg's in the league. I'm not sure why Coach Q doesn't utilize Whithy off the bench? (My biggest gripe with his coaching) he should be stealing some of Bookers mins.

Getting one of those guys for potentially our best player and all of our depth is a little insane in my view.

It's insane to me how much faith you have in exum

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Many of us, and I admit I was slow to agree, saw the DWill, Boozer, Okur, AK and Harpring team as fatally flawed, namely because certain players couldn't play defense, while others had questionable fortitude.

I see the same outcome for this group, but flawed because the defense cannot ever compensate for the horrific offensive. Jazz have one player who is worthless on offense unless he gets lobs or offensive rebounds (Gobert). Favors is good inside and has decent range, out to 15-18 feet or so. Hayward has a bit more, but is not really a 3PT threat (36% on 5 attempts/per). In fact, the Jazz have ZERO players shooting 40% or better from behind the arc. I think Hood has that potential, though. As for PG's, yes, Exum WILL likely be an improvement over the trio that is currently getting minutes. But let's not forget he shot 35%/31% and is coming off a terrible injury.

Hate to say it, but I don't see the Exum, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert lineup as being all that special. They'll never contend.

U have one of my the biggest defeatist attitudes I've ever seen. U need to chill the hell out with this garbage. This team is far from a finished product.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

It's insane to me how much faith you have in exum

I'm a calculated gambling man and faith is my best asset, And when Exum rises, maybe then u will too. I just see a tone of JKidd and Prime Harris in Exum. Call me crazy, but I think this injury will be a blessing in disguise concerning his leadership and mental makeup potential.

He's going to be a bad assssssssssssss!!!!!