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Is this trade too skewed in favor of Cleveland?

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franklin

Well-Known Member
Burks' 2 year disaster contract plus Joe Johnson and the Jazz' first this season, top 3 protected and top 13 protected next season, for JR Smith's 3 year monstrosity contract (possibly worst contract in the league), Iman Shumpert, and the Brooklyn pick, several second rounders, and $3 million compensation.

The Jazz take on a massive extra season's worth of salary hit on Smith's worthless ***. Burks and Shumpert contracts cancel each other out. Cleveland upgrades their shooting guard position tremendously on offense over the horrible contributions of Smith and Shumpert while getting out of paying $14.7 and $15.6 to Smith over the next two seasons, and also save some LT penalty money this season. Joe and Burks give them a better chance at another deep playoff run. This also drops them below the projected LT next season which might allow them enough room to go back up to re-sign IT for a lot of money. All that for a currently 6th projected lottery pick. Worth it or no?
 
Interesting. Can we buy out Smith?
 
Could we also throw Rubio and Frye into the deal?
 
That Nets 2018 pick is a massive asset. Just watched a podcast that said the Cavs will only trade that pick as part of a deal for a star they feel puts them over the hump of GSW.

So I think that would kill this deal right there. Burks and JJ will not be the difference maker there.

Edit: @LoPo beat me to it.
 
LoPo said:
I like the premise, but Cleveland came out today and said they are only trading the Brooklyn pick for a player that puts them "over the top". http://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2018...yn-pick-for-a-star-player-not-deandre-jordan/

I think the trade that makes the most sense is:

Jazz get Mirotic and Osman (unless Chicago really wants Osman)
Cavs get Favors
Bulls get Frye and Cavs' 2018 1st (not Brookyln but Cavs).
Click to expand...

The Brooklyn pick only becomes available for a guy that puts them over the top (that guy is not out there) or if they get some really good pieces and Steph continues to have ankle issues... he is reportedly out again with an ankle sprain.

If they believe Steph has a shot at not being healthy then maybe they have a legit shot at the Warriors... then lets say we offer Hood, Favs, Thabo for Shump and whatever they need to make salaries work... ant the BKN pick. Then maybe it becomes available, but i think someone could beat that offer.
 
Stoked said:
That Nets 2018 pick is a massive asset. Just watched a podcast that said the Cavs will only trade that pick as part of a deal for a star they feel puts them over the hump of GSW.

So I think that would kill this deal right there. Burks and JJ will not be the difference maker there.
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Also we are a game or so away from being worse than Brooklyn and they have no incentive to tank... our pick imo is close to that same value as the BKN pick... why would we give that for Niko... we won't. Just doing some math.
 
The Cavs have already said that they are not trading the Brooklyn pick. That pick is their safety net for a rebuild if LeBron decides to pack his bags and leave again. They definitely aren't going to move it in order to swap role players. The only way that they might budge and trade the pick is if they can move it in some sort of trade package to get a star player that they believe will help them win a championship this year and help keep LeBron in town.
 
This makes no sense for either team.

There is only 1 game difference between Nets and Jazz. So why would they move players around to trade picks?

I think Jazz will get better and make a run but Nets obviously have no reason to lose and will try to win games as well. When the real tanking starts post all-star Nets will not be one of those teams.
 
Could you imagine tanking and having the Nets and Jazz pick in 2018?

Would adding Favors to that for a C for them help facilitate this? Favors, JJ and Burks for the Brooklyn 2018 pick?

I went to finish that and had to type Smith and/or Shumpert and the Jazz and lost it.

No thanks. NEXT!
 
LoPo said:
I like the premise, but Cleveland came out today and said they are only trading the Brooklyn pick for a player that puts them "over the top". http://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2018...yn-pick-for-a-star-player-not-deandre-jordan/
Click to expand...

Good luck to them adding to their championship drive with that mentality.

Stoked said:
That Nets 2018 pick is a massive asset. Just watched a podcast that said the Cavs will only trade that pick as part of a deal for a star they feel puts them over the hump of GSW.

So I think that would kill this deal right there. Burks and JJ will not be the difference maker there.

Edit: @LoPo beat me to it.
Click to expand...

Like most fans, you are overvaluing high draft picks that aren't #1 or maybe #2 in the right year.

This trade idea has a ton of wiggle room and can easily be adjusted by giving them expirings like Thabo, Favors, Jerebko, or Udoh. For example, Burks, Favors, Udoh and Thabo for Shumper, Smith and Frye. That would easily bolster Cleveland immediately and hurt the Jazz, thus increasing their own lottery odds. But it's way too lopsided and wastes most trade assets while taking on liabilities.
 
franklin said:
Good luck to them adding to their championship drive with that mentality.



Like most fans, you are overvaluing high draft picks that aren't #1 or maybe #2 in the right year.

This trade idea has a ton of wiggle room and can easily be adjusted by giving them expirings like Thabo, Favors, Jerebko, or Udoh. For example, Burks, Favors, Udoh and Thabo for Shumper, Smith and Frye. That would easily bolster Cleveland immediately and hurt the Jazz, thus increasing their own lottery odds. But it's way too lopsided and wastes most trade assets while taking on liabilities.
Click to expand...

I'm not doing anything beyond going with the information provided by those more in the know than I am. Now these analysts could certainly be wrong but how would I know?
 
So everything you write should be taken as regurgitated talking points from pundits trying to increase viewership and sell more adds?

Also, I didn't read anything claiming "That Nets 2018 pick is a massive asset."
 
The Cavs are pretty much guaranteed to get the #1 pick with that Nets pick. If the Jazz traded for it before the lottery, it would probably end up at like 8th or something like that.
 
This is a trade I could get behind although the cavs probably still say no based on that article.

But, would you consider Hood AND Joe Johnson OR Favors and a top 15 protected 1st round 2018/2019 pick for Crowder AND Fry OR Schumpert, and the Brooklyn pick? Do Hood and Johnson OR Favors and their ability to stretch the floor / solidify the defense put them over the top more than Fry/Shumpert and Crowder? I'd say it arguably does by adding the perfect complimentary player to Lebron James in Hood who is yet another catch and shoot player. Favors would help that team WAY more than Fry does today. It gives them a $20 million discount ($5 million x repeater tax), it improves their team now, and it adds $13 - $14 million in expiring contracts this year (up from $7.4). It's a win now move for sure, but do you really think that they are going to beat the Warriors now? Add Hood and Favors for Shumpert and Fry/Crowder (who has looked terrible) and I would say they are much more competitive.
 
The Cleveland deal should be easy since we want nothing to do with Shumpert and Cleveland will not be trading Crowder for Favors. They want to lose little and gain a piece that can help.

Favors for Frye, Osman and the Cleveland 2018 pick. That trade is an absolute no brainer for both sides.

Then, if the Bulls can't get what they want for Mirotic, we wait until the last minute and offer Frye, JoeJ, the Cleveland pick and our 2nd for Mirotic. If the Bulls don't take it, we aren't that upset. The Bulls still have to spend a good bit to reach the salary floor. Frye and JoeJ get them to the salary floor with both being expiring deals.

So we end up with Osman and a late first while keeping our 2nd
or
Osman and Mirotic and lose our 2nd
 
Ron Mexico said:
This makes no sense for either team.

There is only 1 game difference between Nets and Jazz. So why would they move players around to trade picks?

I think Jazz will get better and make a run but Nets obviously have no reason to lose and will try to win games as well. When the real tanking starts post all-star Nets will not be one of those teams.
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Something came up so I rushed the post. The protection was supposed to be top 13 this season and whatever they could negotiate next. Basically, the Jazz get a little worse and increase their own pick while getting another potentially #1 pick and a couple second rounders. Does that change your opinion?

Of all teams, the Jazz clearly have the most expiring assets to trade to a contender and are in limbo at the moment, clearly in need of a third piece. Hood, Ingles, Favors, Thabo, Jerebko, Udoh, Exum, JoeJ and Burks all have some trade value that would help Cleveland win now. I bet DL has had several phone calls with them and with Ainge too. That 1 & 6-30 protected LA pick 2018 or the best of Phili and Sactown picks in 2019 is definitely on the table. I could see the Jazz offering to Boston their pick of any two of Udoh, Jerebko, Thabo for their Gortat Haywood disabled player exception plus a variety of a salary swap players to upgrade into Ingles, Favors, or Burks. They could easily improve by trading that pick plus their own first (and maybe more) and Morris + Baynes for Udoh, Thabo and Favors.
 
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franklin said:
Something came up so I rushed the post. The protection was supposed to be top 13 this season and whatever they could negotiate next. Basically, the Jazz get a little worse and increase their own pick while getting another potentially #1 pick and a couple second rounders. Does that change your opinion?

Of all teams, the Jazz clearly have the most expiring assets to trade to a contender and are in limbo at the moment, clearly in need of a third piece. Hood, Ingles, Favors, Thabo, Jerebko, Udoh, Exum, JoeJ and Burks all have some trade value that would help Cleveland win now. I bet DL has had several phone calls with them and with Ainge too. That 1 & 6-30 LA pick 2018 or the best of Phili and Sactown picks in 2019 is definitely on the table. I could see the Jazz offering to Boston their pick of any two of Udoh, Jerebko, Thabo for their Gortat Haywood disabled player exception plus a variety of a salary swap players to upgrade into Ingles, Favors, or Burks. They could easily improve by trading that pick plus their own first (and maybe more) and Morris + Baynes for Udoh, Thabo and Favors.
Click to expand...
Favors, Hood and Burks for Hayward.
 
franklin said:
Something came up so I rushed the post. The protection was supposed to be top 13 this season and whatever they could negotiate next. Basically, the Jazz get a little worse and increase their own pick while getting another potentially #1 pick and a couple second rounders. Does that change your opinion?

Of all teams, the Jazz clearly have the most expiring assets to trade to a contender and are in limbo at the moment, clearly in need of a third piece. Hood, Ingles, Favors, Thabo, Jerebko, Udoh, Exum, JoeJ and Burks all have some trade value that would help Cleveland win now. I bet DL has had several phone calls with them and with Ainge too. That 1 & 6-30 protected LA pick 2018 or the best of Phili and Sactown picks in 2019 is definitely on the table. I could see the Jazz offering to Boston their pick of any two of Udoh, Jerebko, Thabo for their Gortat Haywood disabled player exception plus a variety of a salary swap players to upgrade into Ingles, Favors, or Burks. They could easily improve by trading that pick plus their own first (and maybe more) and Morris + Baynes for Udoh, Thabo and Favors.
Click to expand...

The more I think about this the more I can see Cleveland and Boston getting into a bidding war with Utah. Too bad Toronto, San Antonio and Hoostan have nothing to offer.
 
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