Israel-Hamas War
- Thread starter Rubashov
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Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
The difference is that Mossad is telling the truth, as was Hamas when they also said Iran was involved, while America is saying a lie that best serves America’s interests. I applaud the Biden Administration for it. This is some of the best crisis management the Biden Administration has done since getting to the White House.
The Biden Administration has told Lebanon, Syria, and Iran in no uncertain terms that if any of them attempt to stir the pot right now that we will kill them. We have put the Gerald R Ford carrier strike group right off the coast of Syria and are bringing the Dwight D Eisenhower carrier strike group into the region to make good on those threats.
The claims of not being able to find evidence that Iran was directly involved was to allow Iran space to back down without losing face. It is a lie but it is a lie in service of de-escalation. Any statements from Iranian officials denying foreknowledge of the Hamas attack is a signal that Iran is accepting America’s invitation for cooler heads to prevail.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
When the Israeli government is criticized for things other governments are not criticized for...well yeah, that's probably because of anti-Semitism.
I'm having a hard time imagining a country that would not react this way if a terrorist organization went into it and killed 1000+ of its citizens. And I'm having a hard time imagining they wouldn't receive universal support around the globe. Unless, of course, that country is Israel.
FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
Hamas spokesmen continue to declare with a straight face that no civilians were targeted.
Atrocious lies everywhere both sides As per usual. Never going to end
Atrocious lies everywhere both sides As per usual. Never going to end
If the residents of the tribal homelands had attacked the rest of South Africa this way, the support for South Africa would not have been universal.
Unless Gaza/Palestine became an actual nation and I missed it, Hamas was already in Israel. They broke through barriers to another part of Israel.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
The Gaza Strip isn't in Israel. It isn't in any nation.
Suuuuure, just like Venda was an independent state for a time. Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Last time I checked, ANC wasn't Hamas nor was their party platform built on driving white people into the sea or ending the very existence of Afrikaners as a nation.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
This is why us Jews get upset when people criticize Israel. The standards are always different for Israel. Just look at the usual tropes.
Israel is like South Africa. Except the small part where South Africa wasn't attacked by its neighbouring countries multiple times over it's 75-year existence. Nor were there any neighbours who declared war on SA and never signed a peace treaty, even 8 decades later. Nor did SA win that war whose sole aim was physical destruction of its people, only to find themselves facing all kinds of pressure to sign treaties with a state utterly unwilling to sign one. And might I add, a state that approaches the idea of negotiations as if they are the victor. Countless treaties have been signed over the past couple of centuries where the attacker/loser was punished, but apparently that doesn't apply when Israel is involved.
Israel is a case of settler colonialism. Yeah, so are so many other countries in the world. How come we never hear about Argentina or Mexico or even Russia being guilty of that? Why is Israel singled out for carving their country out by force when all freaking countries were created by force? Western Sahara has been occupied by Morocco for decades as well, but look up the disparity in UN resolutions dealing with Israel and the ones dealing with Morocco. Go ahead, look it up. Are there protests in Times Square against Morocco? Are there any campaigns to boycot the country and its products? I'm certainly not aware of anything.
It's morally unacceptable to have Israel defined as a Jewish state. Except. of course, that most countries are nationial states. Certainly in Europe, to which Israel belongs culturally, if not geographically. Other than Switzerland and microstates, countries in Europe are national states. Proudly and openly so, might I add. The first sentence of the Croatian constitution says "The Republic of Croatia is established as the nation state of the Croatian people." No one's bothered that Denmark is the state of Danish people or that Hungary is the state of Hungarian people.
Jews are not "a people" but a religion. Ah yes. Apparently the Jews have not been an identifiable, separate ethnic group for milennia, while Danish and Hungarian people have existed forever. Also, identity is not a subjective, personal thing, but rather an objective category best left to decide by the outsiders.
The return to 1967 borders would fix everything. Never mind that those borders carry no legal meaning and are simply a result of ceasefire lines, the Palestinians don't actually want a two-state solution. The issue isn't that Hamas wants to see Israel destroyed, it's that most Palestinians want Israel destroyed. Here's a poll from 2020.
And again, I remind you, this is the position of a side that was defeated in a war they started. 3/5ths of them apparently believe that starting point of the negotiations is to ask for everything, and then increase demands from there.
Israel is like South Africa. Except the small part where South Africa wasn't attacked by its neighbouring countries multiple times over it's 75-year existence. Nor were there any neighbours who declared war on SA and never signed a peace treaty, even 8 decades later. Nor did SA win that war whose sole aim was physical destruction of its people, only to find themselves facing all kinds of pressure to sign treaties with a state utterly unwilling to sign one. And might I add, a state that approaches the idea of negotiations as if they are the victor. Countless treaties have been signed over the past couple of centuries where the attacker/loser was punished, but apparently that doesn't apply when Israel is involved.
Israel is a case of settler colonialism. Yeah, so are so many other countries in the world. How come we never hear about Argentina or Mexico or even Russia being guilty of that? Why is Israel singled out for carving their country out by force when all freaking countries were created by force? Western Sahara has been occupied by Morocco for decades as well, but look up the disparity in UN resolutions dealing with Israel and the ones dealing with Morocco. Go ahead, look it up. Are there protests in Times Square against Morocco? Are there any campaigns to boycot the country and its products? I'm certainly not aware of anything.
It's morally unacceptable to have Israel defined as a Jewish state. Except. of course, that most countries are nationial states. Certainly in Europe, to which Israel belongs culturally, if not geographically. Other than Switzerland and microstates, countries in Europe are national states. Proudly and openly so, might I add. The first sentence of the Croatian constitution says "The Republic of Croatia is established as the nation state of the Croatian people." No one's bothered that Denmark is the state of Danish people or that Hungary is the state of Hungarian people.
Jews are not "a people" but a religion. Ah yes. Apparently the Jews have not been an identifiable, separate ethnic group for milennia, while Danish and Hungarian people have existed forever. Also, identity is not a subjective, personal thing, but rather an objective category best left to decide by the outsiders.
The return to 1967 borders would fix everything. Never mind that those borders carry no legal meaning and are simply a result of ceasefire lines, the Palestinians don't actually want a two-state solution. The issue isn't that Hamas wants to see Israel destroyed, it's that most Palestinians want Israel destroyed. Here's a poll from 2020.
And again, I remind you, this is the position of a side that was defeated in a war they started. 3/5ths of them apparently believe that starting point of the negotiations is to ask for everything, and then increase demands from there.
I don't know enough about any of this to take a side, but you make some valid, thought-provoking arguments.This is why us Jews get upset when people criticize Israel. The standards are always different for Israel. Just look at the usual tropes.
Israel is like South Africa. Except the small part where South Africa wasn't attacked by its neighbouring countries multiple times over it's 75-year existence. Nor were there any neighbours who declared war on SA and never signed a peace treaty, even 8 decades later. Nor did SA win that war whose sole aim was physical destruction of its people, only to find themselves facing all kinds of pressure to sign treaties with a state utterly unwilling to sign one. And might I add, a state that approaches the idea of negotiations as if they are the victor. Countless treaties have been signed over the past couple of centuries where the attacker/loser was punished, but apparently that doesn't apply when Israel is involved.
Israel is a case of settler colonialism. Yeah, so are so many other countries in the world. How come we never hear about Argentina or Mexico or even Russia being guilty of that? Why is Israel singled out for carving their country out by force when all freaking countries were created by force? Western Sahara has been occupied by Morocco for decades as well, but look up the disparity in UN resolutions dealing with Israel and the ones dealing with Morocco. Go ahead, look it up. Are there protests in Times Square against Morocco? Are there any campaigns to boycot the country and its products? I'm certainly not aware of anything.
It's morally unacceptable to have Israel defined as a Jewish state. Except. of course, that most countries are nationial states. Certainly in Europe, to which Israel belongs culturally, if not geographically. Other than Switzerland and microstates, countries in Europe are national states. Proudly and openly so, might I add. The first sentence of the Croatian constitution says "The Republic of Croatia is established as the nation state of the Croatian people." No one's bothered that Denmark is the state of Danish people or that Hungary is the state of Hungarian people.
Jews are not "a people" but a religion. Ah yes. Apparently the Jews have not been an identifiable, separate ethnic group for milennia, while Danish and Hungarian people have existed forever. Also, identity is not a subjective, personal thing, but rather an objective category best left to decide by the outsiders.
The return to 1967 borders would fix everything. Never mind that those borders carry no legal meaning and are simply a result of ceasefire lines, the Palestinians don't actually want a two-state solution. The issue isn't that Hamas wants to see Israel destroyed, it's that most Palestinians want Israel destroyed. Here's a poll from 2020.
And again, I remind you, this is the position of a side that was defeated in a war they started. 3/5ths of them apparently believe that starting point of the negotiations is to ask for everything, and then increase demands from there.