It's official, Corbin didn't get the order to tank the season

[Gameface]

He's outcoached many guys he shouldn't have with the talent given. They are watching him and licking their chops hoping Utah fires him. The pros know.

Well, if he's desired by other teams I'll believe it when I see it. I figure this is his shot and he's not making the most of it, imho. He's supposed to be developing a defensive identity and evaluating the potential of our young "core" yet he's trying to eek out wins with the offensive abilities of players who aren't going to be here long term. That doesn't seem like a good resume builder to me, especially since even if we do relatively better than expected this year we still wont be good.

 

[SojoDave]

When the FO didn't resign Millsap, that should have been a clear enough message to Ty that the tank was on. Obviously, Ty didn't get the message.

 

[addictionary]

God I'm so happy that HH is back. Gives me hope that it won't be too bad after all.

 

[addictionary]

The only way Corbin would be in on the tank is if the FO guaranteed him a contract after this year. If they didn't Corbin wouldn't have any incentive to "tank". He's going to try and win, because if he doesn't he won't be coaching next year for any team.

What is the best time to fire an HC?

 

[Diamond77]

What is the best time to fire an HC?

Before the All-Star Game break.

 

[franklin]

Well, if he's desired by other teams I'll believe it when I see it. I figure this is his shot and he's not making the most of it, imho. He's supposed to be developing a defensive identity and evaluating the potential of our young "core" yet he's trying to eek out wins with the offensive abilities of players who aren't going to be here long term. That doesn't seem like a good resume builder to me, especially since even if we do relatively better than expected this year we still wont be good.

I've been impressed with the defensive growth of these players. There is much better cohesion and chemistry now than at the first of the season. I also don't get what more we need to see to evaluate the young guys. They're all getting significant minutes, and being evaluated even better in practice sessions that we are not privy to. Burks and Favors have grown impressively. Hayward has not, but he's already a known quantity and is being given an opportunity to do things he's not good at. Corbin has changed up a lot of plays for Hayward trying to help him find his sweat spots (i.e. they've gone away from a ton of "strong motion" DHO from Favors to Hayward that they were using a bunch early on).


I was unsure of Corbin last season, but this year has finally peeled back a few layers and shown us what he's capable of. He's easily an above average coach.

 

[Jeffrey32]

We can develop the youngs and lose the games at the same time. The Bucks are the example.

I don't think that is true… If you lose deliberatley it could hinder the confidence of the players and create a losing culture. You don't want to become the Sacramento Kings.

 

[Diamond77]

I've been impressed with the defensive growth of these players. There is much better cohesion and chemistry now than at the first of the season. I also don't get what more we need to see to evaluate the young guys. They're all getting significant minutes, and being evaluated even better in practice sessions that we are not privy to. Burks and Favors have grown impressively. Hayward has not, but he's already a known quantity and is being given an opportunity to do things he's not good at. Corbin has changed up a lot of plays for Hayward trying to help him find his sweat spots (i.e. they've gone away from a ton of "strong motion" DHO from Favors to Hayward that they were using a bunch early on).I was unsure of Corbin last season, but this year has finally peeled back a few layers and shown us what he's capable of. He's easily an above average coach.

So you have excluded Kanter....

If you give so much credit to Corbin then give him the extension now and let him orchestrate the tank in peace.

 

[Diamond77]

I don't think that is true… If you lose deliberatley it could hinder the confidence of the players and create a losing culture. You don't want to become the Sacramento Kings.

Losing culture in just 1 season?

One player can change a franchise....look at the Blazers drafting Lillard and the Pacers with Paul George.

Maybe I'm too high on Jabari and Wiggins, but I believe these are type of players we need to make the definitive qualitative leap.

 

[Gameface]

I've been impressed with the defensive growth of these players. There is much better cohesion and chemistry now than at the first of the season. I also don't get what more we need to see to evaluate the young guys. They're all getting significant minutes, and being evaluated even better in practice sessions that we are not privy to. Burks and Favors have grown impressively. Hayward has not, but he's already a known quantity and is being given an opportunity to do things he's not good at. Corbin has changed up a lot of plays for Hayward trying to help him find his sweat spots (i.e. they've gone away from a ton of "strong motion" DHO from Favors to Hayward that they were using a bunch early on).


I was unsure of Corbin last season, but this year has finally peeled back a few layers and shown us what he's capable of. He's easily an above average coach.

But he isn't willing to play Kanter and Favors together until he figures out how to make that work. Why? He'd rather win a couple extra games in what's is most likely not a playoff year no matter how much the team overachieves. I'm not saying throw ball games, but seriously, he can afford to put a dysfunctional line-up on the floor in the first half of the season and try to figure out how to make it workable. He can put (and he has these tools in his arsenal) a team on the floor that might be able to play strong D but can't score points. Then tell that unit that they will be judged on defense and defense alone. Maybe he's trying to bring the defense along, but he's just too conservative, and has been from day one, to go out on a limb and try to do something that will be ugly in the short run but will pay dividends in the long run, not just in draft position but in actually building a defensive identity with the players he's going to have if he actually works here 2-3 years down the road.

 

[GVC]

But he isn't willing to play Kanter and Favors together until he figures out how to make that work. Why?

Maybe playing next to a player struggling with basic team defense/offense problems (Kanter) could hurt Favors' and Gordo's development, chemistry and performance (I can't imagine playing with a player who has no clue what he's doing helps anyone). Kanter's put together a few decent games lately, with increased confidence, focus and teamplay. A couple games ago, Kanter played his first 4th quarter minutes with Favors since his last start. As Enes figures out some of his basic confidence, consistency and bball iq issues, I'd guess they'll play more together.

 

[Gameface]

Maybe playing next to a player struggling with basic team defense/offense problems (Kanter) could hurt Favors' and Gordo's development, chemistry and performance (I can't imagine playing with a player who has no clue what he's doing helps anyone). Kanter's put together a few decent games lately, with increased confidence, focus and teamplay. A couple games ago, Kanter played his first 4th quarter minutes with Favors since his last start. As Enes figures out some of his basic confidence, consistency and bball iq issues, I'd guess they'll play more together.

Sure, that makes sense in a season where the team has something to lose by losing, but seems to make less sense to me in a season where they have more to gain from losing. That addresses these "culture of losing" concerns because players like Favors can know that they are doing well and executing what the coach is asking them to do while understanding that their teammate needs to figure out where he's at in the scheme of things and that losing is part of that process.

 

[franklin]

But he isn't willing to play Kanter and Favors together until he figures out how to make that work. Why? He'd rather win a couple extra games in what's is most likely not a playoff year no matter how much the team overachieves. I'm not saying throw ball games, but seriously, he can afford to put a dysfunctional line-up on the floor in the first half of the season and try to figure out how to make it workable. He can put (and he has these tools in his arsenal) a team on the floor that might be able to play strong D but can't score points. Then tell that unit that they will be judged on defense and defense alone. Maybe he's trying to bring the defense along, but he's just too conservative, and has been from day one, to go out on a limb and try to do something that will be ugly in the short run but will pay dividends in the long run, not just in draft position but in actually building a defensive identity with the players he's going to have if he actually works here 2-3 years down the road.

I don't think they have much hope for those two to co-exist until Kanter becomes an offensive force. I haven't seen how they'd play together for at least two years. They're both F-C tweeners who can't guard perimeter 4's.

If you're going to play the twin towers game then you have to overpower the other team on the offensive end so they have to adjust to you by bringing in bigger, slower bodies. It's not about making them play good defense together, and both are being given ample offensive opportunities to develop when in the game (USG% over 20).

From this perspective, it is better for their growth to not play together but instead stretch the floor so they have room to work and passing options when not comfortable with a play.

 

[GVC]

Sure, that makes sense in a season where the team has something to lose by losing, but seems to make less sense to me in a season where they have more to gain from losing. That addresses these "culture of losing" concerns because players like Favors can know that they are doing well and executing what the coach is asking them to do while understanding that their teammate needs to figure out where he's at in the scheme of things and that losing is part of that process.

An individual can't execute much of anything, and thus can't learn from proper execution, if his teammates have their heads up their asses. Playing lineups that give players the appropriate support for their development is important. Kanter and Burks off the bench makes too much sense. If Kanter continues to improve on his issues, and still doesn't get any 4th quarter minutes with Favors in the second half of the season, I'll probably be on board with the complaint.

 

[GVC]

If you're going to play the twin towers game then you have to overpower the other team on the offensive end so they have to adjust to you by bringing in bigger, slower bodies. It's not about making them play good defense together, and both are being given ample offensive opportunities to develop when in the game (USG% over 20).

From this perspective, it is better for their growth to not play together but instead stretch the floor so they have room to work and passing options when not comfortable with a play.

Yep. The problem is, as Kanter works out his issues, he's going to have to share the court with Favors to get 20+ minutes. When Kanter's ready for high leverage, 4th quarter minutes (he seems to be getting a bit closer, and played a handful of minutes with Favors in the 4th against the Clips), you have to figure out how to play them together or you risk stunting Kanter's growth. That is, unless you choose to trade one of them.

 

[8]

I find it hard to believe Corbin is the world's worst coach, and that other teams wouldn't want him. Someone who spent the time he did under Jerry Sloan can definitely not be that bad.

And sorry, but he's just not going to tank games. Winning not only brings more fans to the games, but also keeps the players happier.

 

[One Brow]

When the FO didn't resign Millsap, that should have been a clear enough message to Ty that the tank was on. Obviously, Ty didn't get the message.

It's a shame that Corbin can't talk to the front office directly and hear what they want, and instead has to fill in the blanks like most fans do.

 

[nightmare3983]

It's a shame that Corbin can't talk to the front office directly and hear what they want, and instead has to fill in the blanks like most fans do.

It would be awesome to see communication between Ty and the FO that's going on this season, like what's come out between Alex Rodriguez and the Yankees' president.

 

[Gameface]

Dammit GVC and franklin, I want the Jazz to tank and I want to rationalize ways to accomplish that. Stop with the reality already.

 

[franklin]

Dammit GVC and franklin, I want the Jazz to tank and I want to rationalize ways to accomplish that. Stop with the reality already.

hahahah

Yeah, me too. That's why I want DL to fire Corbin and hire someone who truly believes that Kanter-Favors is the best starting lineup. Corbin is the easiest person to sacrifice for the tank.