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I've never been so scared in my life

Siro said:
Mass shooting is specially a problem in the United States (and a relatively recent one at that). You can't blame it on the modern schooling system since it has been ubiquitous since the industrial revolution, and has become the global standard the past century or so.

I think the problem goes deeper, and it has to do with the loss of community that technology and development brings about. This is exacerbated in North European cultures, like that of the United States, due to the inherently individualistic and productivity oriented outlook. Mentally vulnerable individuals suffer in their isolated bubbles, and end up breaking down, and sometimes lashing out.

I recommend you give the book Tribe: on Homecoming and Belonging a look. It tackles the question of why many people, specially men, specially in developed countries, and specially in the United States, miss war, and often find it difficult to readjust in modern society. The book often reaches in its explanations, but that is expected since it's written by a journalist and not a sociologist. The thesis it advances for the astronomical rates of PTSD for US war vets, even those who never saw combat, applies to problems like mass shootings and other extreme anti-social behavior. It's a good quick read.
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I was not blaming our school system for school shootings. I was saying that I think our system does a lot of psychological harm. That it isn't just one crazy kid here or there. That the problem is greater than just school shootings. I agree with your second paragraph and would simply point out that our schooling system is part(perhaps the most important) of the society you describe in the second paragraph. You make the argument yourself. We have replaced that community with a school system that will be replaced by a workplace when you age. As far as being isolated these kids aren't alone they're lonely. They are surrounded by people that are busy establishing their own position in the pecking order and stepping on others is often how you do that. Jr. high is a hyper intense version of our society that is filled with the people that are least equipped to deal with it.
 
♪alt13 said:
For starters I don't think we can ignore their biology. I think a lot of it is a natural biological reaction to putting a bunch of teenagers in the same building. While it's a normal practice now it is neither natural nor is it normal over the course of human history. You take a person going through profound biological changes and put them in the most stressful social situation you possibly can surrounded by pheromones 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Then you ask them to concentrate and learn and if they don't they are a disappointment to their parents.
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Seems like you are taking an issue that is in the extreme minority and acting as if it is an issue that effects the vast majority of children. How many instances of a kid shooting up their own school can you list?
 
Srsly imagine your workplace. Now imagine that everyone there is going through puberty, you have weekly tests of your knowledge, you have to take your work home, you can't quit, you don't get paid, and you produce nothing. That's Jr high.
 
♪alt13 said:
Srsly imagine your workplace. Now imagine that everyone there is going through puberty, you have weekly tests of you're knowledge, you have to take your work home, you can't quit, you don't get paid, and you produce nothing. That's Jr high.
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Why do we need a metaphor for something we all went through?

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♪alt13 said:
I was not blaming our school system for school shootings. I was saying that I think our system does a lot of psychological harm. That it isn't just one crazy kid here or there. That the problem is greater than just school shootings. I agree with your second paragraph and would simply point out that our schooling system is part(perhaps the most important) of the society you describe in the second paragraph. You make the argument yourself. We have replaced that community with a school system that will be replaced by a workplace when you age. As far as being isolated these kids aren't alone they're lonely. They are surrounded by people that are busy establishing their own position in the pecking order and stepping on others is often how you do that. Jr. high is a hyper intense version of our society that is filled with the people that are least equipped to deal with it.
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Ya, I agree with all of this. I just wanted to point out that it is a larger societal problem, and not just school related. I believe you're right that the cultural factors that lead to this problem are most apparent in schools, for the reasons you listed.

You're spot on about people being lonely despite being surrounded by people. That is exactly the loss of community that I was referring to.

To make things worse, I don't think there are any comprehensive solutions in the current system. You can make things better thru gun control and what have you. But the source of the problem is technology; the well from which all "progress" gushes thru. Community is just the price we pay for the technological empowerment of the individual.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Seems like you are taking an issue that is in the extreme minority and acting as if it is an issue that effects the vast majority of children. How many instances of a kid shooting up their own school can you list?
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How many suicides, overdoses, dropouts, etc.

Seems like you're ignoring the way the vast majority of kids lash out.
 
Siro said:
Ya, I agree with all of this. I just wanted to point out that it is a larger societal problem, and not just school related. I believe you're right that the cultural factors that lead to this problem are most apparent in schools, for the reasons you listed.

You're spot on about people being lonely despite being surrounded by people. That is exactly the loss of community that I was referring to.

To make things worse, I don't think there are any comprehensive solutions in the current system. You can make things better thru gun control and what have you. But the source of the problem is technology; the well from which all "progress" gushes thru. Community is just the price we pay for the technological empowerment of the individual.
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I disagree with the last paragraph. I was one of those kids. I doubt I would have survived school. One of the things that helped me was getting a day job and working with adults. Suddenly I had role models who were interested in cooperation and who appreciated what I produced. Ironically I went from not knowing what the inside of my school library looked like to spending time in book stores. While I had friends in school I found that after I left I liked them much more. Instead of having a girlfriend that was mostly for show(hated her)I started having relationships with people I wanted to actually spend time with. There wasn't a non-brick and mortar option available to me to continue my education. You took your GED and that was that.

I think that technology can provide options that weren't there before. I think it can provide opportunities to reestablish communities and provide new ones. Further I think that we have underutilized the opportunities for individualization in our education system that technology can provide. Our current system doesn't help kids to become individuals. It strips them of that in much the same way that it strips them of a sense of community. Most kids aren't served well by our current system and they leave school ill prepared for both college and the workplace. I think that a change in our education system could not only increase the psychological health of our kids but also lead to better educational outcomes.
 
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