Game Thread Jan 18, 2024 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Thunder

[str8line]

Second Key stint, comes in at 3:23 in 3rd with score at 91-89. By possession touches:

1. His man throws ball into backcourt over Key's outstretched arms. OKC turnover
2. Gets nicely wide open for a missed 3-attempt.
3. Beautiful juking drive through defenders but gets blocked from behind
4. Gets wide open on a nice give and go with Lauri but Lauri makes a bad pass back to him, no shot attempt
5. Nice pass to extra wide open Fonz for a 3 miss. At this point we're down 98-95
6. Very nice D on driving OKC player resulting in out of bounds turnover
7. Give and go with Collins, gets stripped on drive, turnover
8. Gets scored on, mid-range jumper, not very good D. First points he's directly given up in the game.
9. Great feed to JC who misses a very make-able layup

That's it, score is 109-102, Key goes out of game at 9:15 left in 4th.

So Key gave up one basket total and his defense was good. He had some nice passes that weren't converted on. Had two turnovers. Missed a couple tough shots.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Eh, this isn't the 90s. It worked on Shaq because Shaq got the ball, a lot and hacking him was better than being dunked on.

No. Shaq was regularly hacked far away from the basket. The point was to put him on the line, wait for him to miss (as he would regularly do), and then get the ball back for another offensive possession.

That **** wears you down. Basketball is a rhythm game, and taking a team out of its rhythm by making a terrible FT shooter march to the stripe again and again is a great way to get an advantage.

 

[fishonjazz]

Let's just say I'll take my chances. Putting Kessler on the line is the worst outcome in crunch time, where you need to be in control of the ball as much as possible. OKC was shooting lights out. They knew that if they cut our possession short by hacking Walker, they had a good chance of coming out as the winner of that exchange and putting us away. It's about control.


No it didn't. It removed the chance to make a high-scoring play and gave OKC that chance instead.

It also removed the chance to run more clock and have zero scoring play.

And again, that one point was way way way down the list of reasons we lost. You are being silly.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can you come up with a comp of a guy carrying his team anywhere in playoffs with midrange based game from past 15 years? I just cannot think of anyone.

I mean DeRozan is the best midrange guy I could think of since Kobe, but he hasnt really carried his teams in the postseason. Even that one year when Raptors went to the ECF with him he had pretty bad playoff stats and wasnt their top scorer for most games. Then after they traded him for a modern wing in Kawhi they immediately won the chip.

SGA is both special and elite for sure (and better than DeRozan has ever been), but I'm not 100% sold on him being #1 in a championship team just because he looks too much like a throwback player.

Kawhi, Book, Jokic, KD…

A lot of their work is done in the midrange. OKC has the number 1 half court offense. SGA gets it from everywhere too. If there was a playoff only draft with the whole league I bet he’d be top 5-7. He’s good enough to be that guy. I worry more about rebounding and the supporting players than SGA.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I literally mentioned him in the post, and how Raptors replaced DeRozan with him.

Kawhi in the championship year took 55% of his shots either from 3 or at the rim, and just 15% from floater and 19% from midrange.

SGA last year took 28% from floater and 25% from midrange, and this year the distribution is 24%/25%. He has increased his 3P volume and share, but unlike Kawhi he isnt a near 40% shooter from deep.

That 6% difference really isn't enough for me to think that SGA can't lead a team in the playoffs. Kawhi is known as a mid range killer, that's all I meant. SGA can get to the rim, and shoot threes too, and OKC has an awesome team around him.

You have the winning position since only one of 30 teams will win, so yea, it probably won't be OKC. But in no way do I think SGA's game holds them back in the playoffs.

 

[str8line]

I changed my mind, I DO have energy to complain about George.


LOL. Keyonte's defense in this game was an affront to basketball. I'm not mad at a rookie making inevitable rookie mistakes, but I can't stand low effort in a game like this. Standing around. Not putting a hand up when SGA is taking a shot 3 feet from you. Not running back.

IMO he earned himself a one game DNP-CD.

Care to revise your position?

 

[HermanG]

No. Shaq was regularly hacked far away from the basket. The point was to put him on the line, wait for him to miss (as he would regularly do), and then get the ball back for another offensive possession.

That **** wears you down. Basketball is a rhythm game, and taking a team out of its rhythm by making a terrible FT shooter march to the stripe again and again is a great way to get an advantage.

I thought the rules dont really make it valid these days. Isnt it so that if you hack-a-Kessler away from play thats just 1 FT by anyone + possession back, or if team fouls are full then its 1+2 FTs (2 by Kessler, 1 by whoever).

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Can you come up with a comp of a guy carrying his team anywhere in playoffs with midrange based game from past 15 years? I just cannot think of anyone.

I mean DeRozan is the best midrange guy I could think of since Kobe, but he hasnt really carried his teams in the postseason. Even that one year when Raptors went to the ECF with him he had pretty bad playoff stats and wasnt their top scorer for most games. Then after they traded him for a modern wing in Kawhi they immediately won the chip.

SGA is both special and elite for sure (and better than DeRozan has ever been), but I'm not 100% sold on him being #1 in a championship team just because he looks too much like a throwback player.

The Clippers knocked us out of the playoffs under Snyder by guarding the 3 and paint and the Jazz took basically zero shots during the series (one game literally zero shots from midrange).

We had the same defensive strategy, but the Clips feasted from midrange. A good player takes advantage of what the opponent provides, and a good coach does as well.

Last night Key and Collins were horrible closing out on shooters, but the loss came due to OKC being ready to dismantle Utah's zone with wing cuts and adjustments coming WAY too late. It is mind numbing watching the same exploit over and over again.

It also felt like the whistle was not going our way. One play Collins got nailed with no call and Josh Giggidy-Giggidy came down with a layup and got a whistle wirh basically no contact. I note that Lauri's defenders use their arms a lot, and he needs to learn to sweep through them to get FTs.

 

[fishonjazz]

No. Shaq was regularly hacked far away from the basket. The point was to put him on the line, wait for him to miss (as he would regularly do), and then get the ball back for another offensive possession.

That **** wears you down. Basketball is a rhythm game, and taking a team out of its rhythm by making a terrible FT shooter march to the stripe again and again is a great way to get an advantage.

agreed. Would have been a huge reason for the loss last night if they would have hacked kessler a bunch of times.

 

[fishonjazz]

I thought the rules dont really make it valid these days. Isnt it so that if you hack-a-Kessler away from play thats just 1 FT by anyone + possession back, or if team fouls are full then its 1+2 FTs (2 by Kessler, 1 by whoever).

Interesting question. I thought last night they hacked him away from the ball and he had to go to the line for 2 free throws. maybe he had the ball when the foul occurred?

 

[str8line]

The Clippers knocked us out of the playoffs under Snyder by guarding the 3 and paint and the Jazz took basically zero shots during the series (one game literally zero shots from midrange).

We had the same defensive strategy, but the Clips feasted from midrange. A good player takes advantage of what the opponent provides, and a good coach does as well.

Last night Key and Collins were horrible closing out on shooters, but the loss came due to OKC being ready to dismantle Utah's zone with wing cuts and adjustments coming WAY too late. It is mind numbing watching the same exploit over and over again.

It also felt like the whistle was not going our way. One play Collins got nailed with no call and Josh Giggidy-Giggidy came down with a layup and got a whistle wirh basically no contact. I note that Lauri's defenders use their arms a lot, and he needs to learn to sweep through them to get FTs.

Key got scored on once the whole game.

 

[HermanG]

That 6% difference really isn't enough for me to think that SGA can't lead a team in the playoffs. Kawhi is known as a mid range killer, that's all I meant. SGA can get to the rim, and shoot threes too, and OKC has an awesome team around him.

You have the winning position since only one of 30 teams will win, so yea, it probably won't be OKC. But in no way do I think SGA's game holds them back in the playoffs.

I knew I shouldnt have replied to SGA/Kawhi comp...

Kawhi took 27% of his shots from 3 at 40% hitrate vs SGA 17% at 33% hitrate. SGA literally passes up on open 3s at times... Kawhi would never.

I mean pick one range and sure, 6% isnt much. But they are two completely different player types. SGA is much more DeRozan than he is Kawhi (on offense).