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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Saint Cy of JFC said:
If the Jazz dont want Herro/Barrett it's because they want to tank hard for multiple years.
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That's the thing though... are Herro/Barrett really players that will make you win tons of games? If if they actually ARE that type of players - great, you've jumpstarted the rebuilt and shortcut the path from drafting your future superstar and developing him to actually having one.
 
stitches said:
That's the thing though... are Herro/Barrett really players that will make you win tons of games? If if they actually ARE that type of players - great, you've jumpstarted the rebuilt and shortcut the path from drafting your future superstar and developing him to actually having one.
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Spot on.
 
Flc said:
I feel bad for the guy. He so clearly wants to be a respected NBA Insider but he isn't, has no path to get there, and has to suffice with cosplaying as Shams.
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Yeah I would agree with this. He’s a long time radio host that currently has no show, so he’s hustling to try and build his own YouTube following. I can respect that - the problem is, he’s incentivized to throw out controversial crap so that people listen to him and he can build a following more quickly. And he’s really good at consistently reminding people that “he had this months ago” to build credibility even though he’s wrong 95% of the time
 
stitches said:
That's the thing though... are Herro/Barrett really players that will make you win tons of games? If if they actually ARE that type of players - great, you've jumpstarted the rebuilt and shortcut the path from drafting your future superstar and developing him to actually having one.
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Are they good enough to be the difference between the worst record and something better next year? Are they good enough to push the team just enough in 2024 or 2025 to convey a lottery pick to OKC?

I think they are. I want the very worst record next year and I don’t want that OKC pick conveying unless the Jazz already have a decent core in place.

And dumping all of the win-now guys might be harder than we think if the Jazz don’t consummate an LA deal. The roster is comically imbalanced right now but the Jazz are going to be able to win more games than many of us would like due to sheer firepower.

But if we’re betting on the deals happening that are getting rumored, then the Jazz might pick up a young 20+ ppg, pretty efficient scorer for scrap. And Conley will most likely still be here regardless, who will be very good in the early season.

On that point, if the question of “what are we supposed to use that cap space for anyway?” then that is one answer: value buys, renting out cap space for more draft capital, and rehabbing the distressed assets either for keeps or for trade. I really don’t think there will be a shortage of opportunity, but I think for this season specifically the Jazz need to grab most opportunities they can to get worse.

I get the argument for keeping either of those dudes, and I wouldn’t be mad to. But I just think the timing is slightly off.
 
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I think that the Jazz are hanging onto the other role players until a decision is made with Don (imo). If others are cleared out then everyone knows we don't want to re-tool and run it back, and the negotiating price/tactics worsen.

Once Donovan is gone, Conley + Bojan + Clarkson will shortly follow.

- George
 
NUMBERICA said:
Are they good enough to be the difference between the worst record and something better next year? Are they good enough to push the team just enough in 2024 or 2025 to convey a lottery pick to OKC?

I think they are. I want the very worst record next year and I don’t want that OKC pick conveying unless the Jazz already have a decent core in place.

And dumping all of the win-now guys might be harder than we think if the Jazz don’t consummate an LA deal. The roster is comically imbalanced right now but the Jazz are going to be able to win more games than many of us would like due to sheer firepower.

But if we’re betting on the deals happening that are getting rumored, then the Jazz might pick up a young 20+ ppg, pretty efficient scorer for scrap. And Conley will most likely still be here regardless, who will be very good in the early season.

On that point, if the question of “what are we supposed to use that cap space for anyway?” then that is one answer: value buys, renting out cap space for more draft capital, and rehabbing the distressed assets either for keeps or for trade. I really don’t think there will be a shortage of opportunity, but I think for this season specifically the Jazz need to grab most opportunities they can to get worse.

I get the argument for keeping either of those dudes, and I wouldn’t be mad to. But I just think the timing is slightly off.
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Lets say the value of RJ Barrett right now is about 2 1st round picks. What would you rather do - rehab/develop his value into something similar to what Donovan's value is now or try to rehab/develop the value of someone like... Beasley? IMO there is much more value and potential in developing Barrett than there is in trying to rehab some random fringe rotational player into legit rotational player(aka one 1st round pick). IMO the return on someone like Barrett would be stronger than the random rehabilitation projects teams usually take on into 20-25M salary cap space.

I also think you are overestimating the impact of single players on really bad teams. Even players as good as SGA couldn't make OKC a competitive team. IMO if we trade most of our good vets for picks we would be bad enough for it to not affect our lottery odds a ton. And the little it will affect it will be worth it in case you actually hit big on one of those players.
 
stitches said:
Lets say the value of RJ Barrett right now is about 2 1st round picks. What would you rather do - rehab/develop his value into something similar to what Donovan's value is now or try to rehab/develop the value of someone like... Beasley? IMO there is much more value and potential in developing Barrett than there is in trying to rehab some random fringe rotational player into legit rotational player(aka one 1st round pick). IMO the return on someone like Barrett would be stronger than the random rehabilitation projects teams usually take on into 20-25M salary cap space.

I also think you are overestimating the impact of single players on really bad teams. Even players as good as SGA couldn't make OKC a competitive team. IMO if we trade most of our good vets for picks we would be bad enough for it to not affect our lottery odds a ton. And the little it will affect it will be worth it in case you actually hit big on one of those players.
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I would think asking for Barrett would be more of a negotiating tactic than a true desire to obtain him. It gives the Knicks something to hold out for. Similar to how the Jazz were reportedly interested in Jaden McDaniels and then came off that position in the final deal. Regardless, I still think the Knicks deal will come around to something acceptable to Danny Ainge and Donovan is most likely going to end up in New York this next season.
 
Coach Ellis said:
I would think asking for Barrett would be more of a negotiating tactic than a true desire to obtain him. It gives the Knicks something to hold out for. Similar to how the Jazz were reportedly interested in Jaden McDaniels and then came off that position in the final deal. Regardless, I still think the Knicks deal will come around to something acceptable to Danny Ainge and Donovan is most likely going to end up in New York this next season.
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That's possible and I'm not saying we should definitely go after Barrett(I personally am lower on him than most so I wouldn't do it)... but what I'm saying is - IF they actually have super high valuation on him and they think very highly of him and think he can actually be a star in this league, I'm good with getting him in the trade package.
 
stitches said:
Lets say the value of RJ Barrett right now is about 2 1st round picks. What would you rather do - rehab/develop his value into something similar to what Donovan's value is now or try to rehab/develop the value of someone like... Beasley? IMO there is much more value and potential in developing Barrett than there is in trying to rehab some random fringe rotational player into legit rotational player(aka one 1st round pick). IMO the return on someone like Barrett would be stronger than the random rehabilitation projects teams usually take on into 20-25M salary cap space.

I also think you are overestimating the impact of single players on really bad teams. Even players as good as SGA couldn't make OKC a competitive team. IMO if we trade most of our good vets for picks we would be bad enough for it to not affect our lottery odds a ton. And the little it will affect it will be worth it in case you actually hit big on one of those players.
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I’m glad you brought up SGA and the Thunder. They sit him as much as they can get away with because they have to try really hard to lose. They are actually a pretty competitive team when they’re not pulling ****.

I’m not trying to pull **** on the actual floor. I think tanking starts becoming shameful when the coaching staff has to pull **** to lose games and I’m not looking for that, personally. I also think that’s where the arguments of how tanking has a negative influence on winning culture and habits starts to have merit.

OKC ****ed up when they didn’t go more scorched earth in the CP3 season. Their rebuild is taking longer than it had to because they missed their opportunity to lean into being organically bad and getting to the top of the draft earlier.

On the topic of RJ; he just isn’t in play. He probably costs two unprotected 1sts in the deal and that is an absolute, 1000% non-starter.
 
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