Jazz have 2 of the top 5 poorest defensive impact players.

[fishonjazz]

I completely agree that Sexton and Dunn have been the best guards in this recent stretch of better basketball. Now give me cogent analysis on why Clarkson or THT is a better play than Keyonte?

Last game THT came in, looked composed for all of 3 minutes and then went full gunslinger on offense while showing his best traffic cone imitation on Brandon Ingram. Clarkson on the other hand missed 8 of 11 shots and had 6 turnovers.

The development minutes arent there because of the sake of development, its just because playing the other 4 while benching Keyonte is maybe a 1% improvement on overall performance. I'm not even sure that is true since the heavier the dose is on the trio of JC/Sexton/THT the more Lauri is starving for touches and spectating as those 3 take turns driving into the paint.

With all his flaws, it should still be pretty easy to see that Key defers to the better shooters much more often than the others. I mean I had to go and verify and below the FGA per36 for our most trigger happy guys. Its super sad that Lauri is actually #2. Keyonte ranks 4th among our guards, and he has more assists per36 (7.0) than anyone but Dunn (8.1), tied with THT (also 7.0).

View attachment 15662

Yep, this is why basically EVERYONE agrees that keyonte should continue to get minutes. Take a deep breath bro.

 

[HermanG]

Nope. In the post you quoted he said he thinks that keyonte should keep getting at least 20 minutes per night.

As to your question, from what people have been posting keyonte is like the worst player in the entire league so far this season so yes?

You should ask yourself who are the ones posting that? There is one poster in particular who is leading this charge, which is @Tremendous Upside. I think he is also the only poster in addition to you who has said directly that Keyonte is the worst player in the NBA. I'm not sure if anyone else has even said he is the worst player in Jazz.

Truth is his TS% is very bad and that is his biggest wart. His turnovers are not bad at all for a rookie, despite people trying to push that narrative and harping on every bad pass. His AST/TO ratio is better than Sextons or Clarksons. He is second to KO in total assists, and actually defers to Lauri more often than most of the other guards.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Herman G must be Keyonte's relative or something

Herman G.....

Herman George, it makes sense now.

 

[fishonjazz]

You should ask yourself who are the ones posting that? There is one poster in particular who is leading this charge, which is @Tremendous Upside. I think he is also the only poster in addition to you who has said directly that Keyonte is the worst player in the NBA. I'm not sure if anyone else has even said he is the worst player in Jazz.

Truth is his TS% is very bad and that is his biggest wart. His turnovers are not bad at all for a rookie, despite people trying to push that narrative and harping on every bad pass. His AST/TO ratio is better than Sextons or Clarksons. He is second to KO in total assists, and actually defers to Lauri more often than most of the other guards.

You should go through the gamethread from last night and count how many posts were critical of keyonte while the game was still ongoing. See how many were critical of clarkson while the game was ongoing. Then take a deep breath.
Also, you will find something amazing if you stop posting these posts. The posts criticizing keyonte will go down tremendously. What you are doing currently is continuing the discussion of criticizing keyonte. I know you are defending him but by doing that you are keeping the convo going.

Now take another deep breath.

 

[HermanG]

Herman G must be Keyonte's relative or something

Herman G.....

Herman George, it makes sense now.

Busted.

 

[HermanG]

You should go through the gamethread from last night and count how many posts were critical of keyonte while the game was still ongoing. See how many were critical of clarkson while the game was ongoing. Then take a deep breath.
Also, you will find something amazing if you stop posting these posts. The posts criticizing keyonte will go down tremendously. What you are doing currently is continuing the discussion of criticizing keyonte. I know you are defending him but by doing that you are keeping the convo going.

Now take another deep breath.

You are correct that I ignited this discussion with a very polarizing post and probably have thrown more fuel here than all others combined. Not my proudest moments.

But I fight for the guys I believe in (like many others here do as well, see Cy and THT or HH and TH), and thats not going to stop.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You are correct that I ignited this discussion with a very polarizing post and probably have thrown more fuel here than all others combined. Not my proudest moments.

But I fight for the guys I believe in (like many others here do as well, see Cy and THT or HH and TH), and thats not going to stop.

The thing is no one is fighting against Keyonte. Everyone still really believes in him. Even TU believes in him. No one wants to see him traded because he is bad, or wants to see his minutes get completely cut. You're fighting a ghost.

It's not remotely comparable to me/THT or HH/TH.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

For me Key is passing the eye test on defense in covering his man. His zone and help defense has been fairly poor.

Other than some lazy passing, his decision making is relatively good, and he is really the only guard on the team that keeps the ball moving on a consistent basis.

He is doing fine for a rookie, but definitely has a lot of room to improve.

At some point Hardy needs to start holding him accountable if he continues to miss assignments and making lazy passes, etc.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The thing is no one is fighting against Keyonte. Everyone still really believes in him. Even TU believes in him. No one wants to see him traded because he is bad, or wants to see his minutes get completely cut. You're fighting a ghost.

It's not remotely comparable to me/THT or HH/TH.

I see a ton of good in Keyonte's game. His best talent, IMO, is a natural feel for how things move on a basketball court. You can see it in his instinctive passes to cutters, and in his timing when he attacks closeouts. It's good that he can already function like that in the NBA game, which moves incredibly fast.

However, I think Hardy is making a mistake if he's telling Keyonte to "spread his wings" by looking for his own shot (like some beat writer wrote) at this point. He doesn't need it yet, and he can't make those shots now. This is a guy who IMO has to find his own way of scoring the ball in the NBA, and it may end up being different than we all think based on his physical attributes and guys we've seen previously.

He should play. But right now he definitely doesn't need to start, and he doesn't need to carry the weight of running an offense AND scoring when he's out there. He can't handle it yet. Take it slow. He's been very bad in the role Hardy forced upon him, and the main goal should be to learn how to pick his spots and take care of the ball. Pay attention to defense, don't quit on plays. Be an average NBA guard.

He has plenty of time to spread his wings later if it turns out he has what it takes.

 

[Shad]

Keynote still needs a lot of work..... He could still turn out to be Burke or Exum

 

[jom2003]

The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.

Then why isn't Hendrix given the same opportunity? Like I said, if it was Hendrix who's shooting 1-7 he would get benched immediately. Why can't we let our 9th pick figure things out? I call this double standard and it's creating bad team culture and bad habits for players because we are not rewarding or punishing players based on merits

 

[jom2003]

I see a ton of good in Keyonte's game. His best talent, IMO, is a natural feel for how things move on a basketball court. You can see it in his instinctive passes to cutters, and in his timing when he attacks closeouts. It's good that he can already function like that in the NBA game, which moves incredibly fast.

However, I think Hardy is making a mistake if he's telling Keyonte to "spread his wings" by looking for his own shot (like some beat writer wrote) at this point. He doesn't need it yet, and he can't make those shots now. This is a guy who IMO has to find his own way of scoring the ball in the NBA, and it may end up being different than we all think based on his physical attributes and guys we've seen previously.

He should play. But right now he definitely doesn't need to start, and he doesn't need to carry the weight of running an offense AND scoring when he's out there. He can't handle it yet. Take it slow. He's been very bad in the role Hardy forced upon him, and the main goal should be to learn how to pick his spots and take care of the ball. Pay attention to defense, don't quit on plays. Be an average NBA guard.

He has plenty of time to spread his wings later if it turns out he has what it takes.

Long story short, Hardy simply needs to learn from Orlando way of developing guards. Yes Fultz/Suggs/Cole Anthony will likely never reach their full “potential”, but all three will nonetheless enjoy a very long career thanks to Orlando not forcing unnecessary roles upon them.