Jazz have 2 of the top 5 poorest defensive impact players.

[HermanG]

Clarkson got pissed on more than key last night by a ton.

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In the game thread, sure. But not really elsewhere. TU is hating him hard with Fosto and jom always in his coattails, and now apparently you and Cy are joining that party.

Its way way way too early to hate on him. He is ahead of the curve, which is also why Hardy insists on playing him. He sees the same warts we see, but he also sees a lot of things we dont (like game plan execution).

 

[HermanG]

The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.

So you are saying that if we bench Keyonte and play Dunn, Clarkson, Sexton and THT for guards, we are noticably better, than with Keyonte replacing any one of those 4?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

So you are saying that if we bench Keyonte and play Dunn, Clarkson, Sexton and THT for guards, we are noticably better, than with Keyonte replacing any one of those 4?

Not sure you remember but I wanted Keyonte to start. Back then, all the other guards were playing horribly – especially THT, who was a disaster at PG – but lately Sexton and Dunn in particular have been head and shoulders above him and Keyonte is looking 100% overwhelmed.

Since we're apparently still not picking a lane, I don't know what to say. Maybe letting Keyonte stink IS the plan. Who knows.

 

[str8line]

Olynyk leads the team in DBPM and is 4th in Defensive Win Shares.

KO is a good player.

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[str8line]

The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.

He does go hard. Willing to hit the ground. Can't teach toughness.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

In the game thread, sure. But not really elsewhere. TU is hating him hard with Fosto and jom always in his coattails, and now apparently you and Cy are joining that party.

Its way way way too early to hate on him. He is ahead of the curve, which is also why Hardy insists on playing him. He sees the same warts we see, but he also sees a lot of things we dont (like game plan execution).

Good lord lmao. Far from hate.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

KO is a good player.

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Kelly is the THT of defense. He actually does a lot of great stuff, but the lowlights stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[HermanG]

Good lord lmao. Far from hate.

Ok that is a fair call out. You havent hated on him, just cooled off maybe. Throwing him on the trades is probably the worst you've said, and that isn't hating really.

 

[fishonjazz]

The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.

Agreed. I would continue to roll with Keyonte despite the struggles. Also roll with kessler, ochai, sexton, lauri, simone, and taylor. Tighten that rotation out a ton.

 

[fishonjazz]

In the game thread, sure. But not really elsewhere. TU is hating him hard with Fosto and jom always in his coattails, and now apparently you and Cy are joining that party.

Its way way way too early to hate on him. He is ahead of the curve, which is also why Hardy insists on playing him. He sees the same warts we see, but he also sees a lot of things we dont (like game plan execution).

Lol. I been hating on clarkson since the start of the season. Im the play the young guys (keyonte included) dude.

 

[fishonjazz]

So you are saying that if we bench Keyonte and play Dunn, Clarkson, Sexton and THT for guards, we are noticably better, than with Keyonte replacing any one of those 4?

Nope. In the post you quoted he said he thinks that keyonte should keep getting at least 20 minutes per night.

As to your question, from what people have been posting keyonte is like the worst player in the entire league so far this season so yes?

 

[HermanG]

Not sure you remember but I wanted Keyonte to start. Back then, all the other guards were playing horribly – especially THT, who was a disaster at PG – but lately Sexton and Dunn in particular have been head and shoulders above him and Keyonte is looking 100% overwhelmed.

Since we're apparently still not picking a lane, I don't know what to say. Maybe letting Keyonte stink IS the plan. Who knows.

I completely agree that Sexton and Dunn have been the best guards in this recent stretch of better basketball. Now give me cogent analysis on why Clarkson or THT is a better play than Keyonte?

Last game THT came in, looked composed for all of 3 minutes and then went full gunslinger on offense while showing his best traffic cone imitation on Brandon Ingram. Clarkson on the other hand missed 8 of 11 shots and had 6 turnovers.

The development minutes arent there because of the sake of development, its just because playing the other 4 while benching Keyonte is maybe a 1% improvement on overall performance. I'm not even sure that is true since the heavier the dose is on the trio of JC/Sexton/THT the more Lauri is starving for touches and spectating as those 3 take turns driving into the paint.

With all his flaws, it should still be pretty easy to see that Key defers to the better shooters much more often than the others. I mean I had to go and verify and below the FGA per36 for our most trigger happy guys. Its super sad that Lauri is actually #2. Keyonte ranks 4th among our guards, and he has more assists per36 (7.0) than anyone but Dunn (8.1), tied with THT (also 7.0).