Jazz Offseason Plan

[fishonjazz]

If the front office is being honest, our aging core aint it. I don’t see us replicating our number 1 seed finish next season:

(1) Suns will be better.
(2) Clippers should be the same
(3) Nuggets will get Murray back and be better.
(4) Dallas will aggressively move to get better around Doncic.
(5) Portland will either blow it up or aggressively move to get better around Lillard.
(6) Lakers will not be snakebitten with injuries and will be better.
(7) Warriors will get Klay back and will be better.
(8) Memphis is young and will only get better.

Odds of us blowing it up next year seem pretty high. In which case, start the process now of retooling to hopefully get back much sooner and have a chance of bringing Don back.

Regarding the suns being better next year..... I have seen other posters saying that cp3 might be gone next year and they might lose some other rotational pieces.
They might have maxed out this year (which isn't bad since they likely win the championship this season and finished with the second best record in the league)

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[fishonjazz]

There's really not much to do unless you can sell Donovan on a rebuild. That would mean getting rid of Rudy and taking a step back for a couple seasons. As painful as it would be, it's probably the right thing to do. But I don't think you could sell Donovan on it. And you better ace the quick rebuild because if you don't he's gone for sure.

Idk. Make some fringe moves and run it back isn't the worst thing ever. Maybe practice how to beat a zone and have a plan for small ball?
If we were healthy and did those two things we might be have a championship this year. (Or if we were the 2 seed. Lots of luck involved to win a championship)

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[NUMBERICA]

Idk. Make some fringe moves and run it back isn't the worst thing ever. Maybe practice how to beat a zone and have a plan for small ball?
If we were healthy and did those two things we might be have a championship this year. (Or if we were the 2 seed. Lots of luck involved to win a championship)

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The problem with that is the Jazz were already running a paper-thin rotation and they are likely losing their 3rd-best player. So they're going to have to find a way to dig out three rotation-quality players with **** draft capital, no cap space, and likely not even the full MLE.

I'm just a broken record. I have to do something else.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The problem with that is the Jazz were already running a paper-thin rotation and they are likely losing their 3rd-best player. So they're going to have to find a way to dig out three rotation-quality players with **** draft capital, no cap space, and likely not even the full MLE.

I'm just a broken record. I have to do something else.

What would have to happen to have the full MLE?

 

[LoPo]

The problem with that is the Jazz were already running a paper-thin rotation and they are likely losing their 3rd-best player. So they're going to have to find a way to dig out three rotation-quality players with **** draft capital, no cap space, and likely not even the full MLE.

I'm just a broken record. I have to do something else.

Which is why we have to maximize every potential asset.

Conley
Has to be turned into a player and hopefully at least another minor asset (late pick, useful player, etc).
Kuzma, Harrell and a 1st would do that. If we can get more, we should do it.

Bojan and/or Clarkson
We almost have to trade one of these to address our defense. Most likely, it's Clarkson since Bojan is the better shooter and Clarkson probably has a little bit more value due to age, contract, etc.

#30
If there is any way to turn this pick into better value, we gotta do it. Even if turning #30 into a pick that's likely 20-25 next year, then we take it. A pick like that could be packaged with Clarkson, Bojan or Conley in a deal to get better value once free agency starts.

Cash
The new ownership needs to splash whatever money necessary to make deals work. If it's buying 2nd rounders or making minor trades happen, we need to do it.

Favors
If any team sees him as an asset, we need to trade him there. Even if it's just for an expiring or for no returning salary, we should do it. It might not help 21-22, but it could be very big for 22-23. Without Favors, we are an expiring Bojan away from substantial cap space (depending on the contracts we bring in for Conley).

We have assets. We just have to 100% maximize them all. And if we haven't by the time we get to October and Conley has just walked, we look at the Rudy market.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The problem with that is the Jazz were already running a paper-thin rotation and they are likely losing their 3rd-best player. So they're going to have to find a way to dig out three rotation-quality players with **** draft capital, no cap space, and likely not even the full MLE.

I'm just a broken record. I have to do something else.

One thing that kinda hit me watching the other teams... we have a weird thing where it seems like the front office feels that if you sign a rotation quality nba player to a minimum deal that they need to be in the rotation. We get it here on this site as well. "Why get so and so when they won't be in the rotation?" Because of injuries or because some nights you need something different so Quin needs to break his rotation some nights. Like we are so worried that the agent of player X will be mad he isn't playing... so why bring him in. Case in point is Phoenix with Payne, Moore, and Carter. Some guys may not be happy... but if Payne knows legitimate NBA players are over there waiting for his rotation spot he's likely gonna give you everything he has.

 

[NUMBERICA]

What would have to happen to have the full MLE?

A trade bringing back significantly less salary than what we're trading out.

That Favors contract is killing us.

 

[NAOS]

I think Ingles is and should be a Jazz lifer. I think he is the glue that holds them together, particularly Gobert and Donovan. I honestly think the tension between Rudy and Donovan boils over pretty quick without him. That alone is worth keeping him here.

One way to gloss the failures of the FO is by describing their inability to build a team that relies less on Ingles. They’ve tried that for years, and, when it counts most, it’s been proven time and time again that we rely on him just the same. And I’m speaking of the out-the-court stuff, not the team-culture stuff.

They aren’t trading him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not having Favs on the books would sure open up some things... seems really short sighted. If Mike walks and we don't have Favs then we can open up full MLE.

We can't get off that deal without some kinda asset attached. I think he has a $5M player type value not a $10M player type value.

It really feels like the front office was really not planning on Mike being as good as he was this year and needing to keep him around. Otherwise you leave yourself a little wiggle room. Mike comes back and Favs goes from a $10M backup center into a $30M backup center with the tax. Not sure Ryan is excited about that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A trade bringing back significantly less salary than what we're trading out.

That Favors contract is killing us.

****... just posted something about Favs deal.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One way to gloss the failures of the FO is by describing their inability to build a team that relies less on Ingles. They’ve tried that for years, and, when it counts most, it’s been proven time and time again that we rely on him just the same. And I’m speaking of the out-the-court stuff, not the team-culture stuff.

They aren’t trading him.

I feel like if we traded Joe he'd just retire. We'd never win a Joe Ingles trade.

 

[NUMBERICA]

****... just posted something about Favs deal.

It is just mind-blowing. I will never stop posting about this. When it's 3021 and I'm a head floating in a jar, I'm going to still be screaming about this.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The 2nd we used to trade for Matty *** would help in any number of ways, including but not limited to helping to offload Favors' murderous deal that the Jazz never needed to sign him to.

Anyway, I came on here to ask about the prospect of signing Richaun Holmes with the full MLE. Seems mobile and skilled enough to do better than Gobert in a 5-out defense and that's what killed us. But we can't even dream of something like that with Favors on the books. Maybe we can just dump him on the Kings?

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Does anybody have access to this: https://www.bball-index.com/lineup-tool/

 

[Jingled]

I feel like if we traded Joe he'd just retire. We'd never win a Joe Ingles trade.

I've had the same thought. At this point I don't think he'd ever play for another team. I'm like 95% sure he'd retire if we traded him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It is just mind-blowing. I will never stop posting about this. When it's 3021 and I'm a head floating in a jar, I'm going to still be screaming about this.

When you consider there were a lot of options and that you could have at least played hardball a little (one less year... a couple million less this year) and how much it changes the flexibility we'd have its pretty amazing. Using seconds to dump like $8M of Bradley and Davis to then turn around and draft Udoka and follow up by signing Favs was just amazing. The whole idea with drafting Udoka should be that he can play backup minutes almost immediately or certainly by year 2. So make sure you sign a backup to a one year deal... even if that backup sucks. Or go and get two guys at the minimum like Alex Len and Frank Kaminsky that provide you two different styles of play. Or if you are going to roll out all of the MLE go get Jamychal Green and tell Quin he needs to try 5 out if Snyder is the issue. Green is more playable in the playoffs and might slide into multiple different roles depending on stylistic need or injury.

But we praise DL for taking dynamite to a problem that probably only needed a jack hammer. A+ work.

 

[infection]

When you consider there were a lot of options and that you could have at least played hardball a little (one less year... a couple million less this year) and how much it changes the flexibility we'd have its pretty amazing. Using seconds to dump like $8M of Bradley and Davis to then turn around and draft Udoka and follow up by signing Favs was just amazing. The whole idea with drafting Udoka should be that he can play backup minutes almost immediately or certainly by year 2. So make sure you sign a backup to a one year deal... even if that backup sucks. Or go and get two guys at the minimum like Alex Len and Frank Kaminsky that provide you two different styles of play. Or if you are going to roll out all of the MLE go get Jamychal Green and tell Quin he needs to try 5 out if Snyder is the issue. Green is more playable in the playoffs and might slide into multiple different roles depending on stylistic need or injury.

But we praise DL for taking dynamite to a problem that probably only needed a jack hammer. A+ work.

My biggest complaint is that we always run the same defense with Gobert off the floor and we pay lipservice to the value of a rim protector, but then we spend big on Favors. For all of Favors' strengths, a rim protector is not one of them, but you'll get flamed if you say that as if you're criticizing everything Favors has ever done. You know how much I just wanted to bring in Udoh on a minimum.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My biggest complaint is that we always run the same defense with Gobert off the floor and we pay lipservice to the value of a rim protector, but then we spend big on Favors. For all of Favors' strengths, a rim protector is not one of them, but you'll get flamed if you say that as if you're criticizing everything Favors has ever done. You know how much I just wanted to bring in Udoh on a minimum.

Len is also another guy who is a solid drop big because he's huge. Davis and Favs aren't perfect fits for the system. Favs was familiar so I would bring him in for a premium... but 3/30M was too much of a premium.

Udoh was rough on offense but could pass the ball. I'd have taken him at the minimum too... in part because I think you could try some switching with him. If you really believe in Udoka enough to draft him then I think you need to be willing to bring in a minimum stopgap option that either fits or provides some skill you don't have... and if it doesn't work then you rely on Udoka.

Udoka is more just DL scared GM-ing... if a guy has no chance to play you can't say he failed. You can't judge that pick for 2-3 years because the guy won't see the court.

You also have to find your financial edge/inefficiency. We had Don on a rookie deal so that helps A. LOT. If you are allocating a max deal to a center and pg... you need to spread some of the cap resources to the wing. You can't throw the MLE behind that max deal and a first round pick too. Especially when other teams can get a reasonable option on a budget at center. Even splitting the MLE between Bazemore and a backup center would help us avoid the tax and have more roster flexibility. Its pretty amazing to get many big things right but **** up the other stuff that should be easy so spectacularly. I think we need to send DL's white *** back to Houston.

 

[LoPo]

Len is also another guy who is a solid drop big because he's huge. Davis and Favs aren't perfect fits for the system. Favs was familiar so I would bring him in for a premium... but 3/30M was too much of a premium.

Udoh was rough on offense but could pass the ball. I'd have taken him at the minimum too... in part because I think you could try some switching with him. If you really believe in Udoka enough to draft him then I think you need to be willing to bring in a minimum stopgap option that either fits or provides some skill you don't have... and if it doesn't work then you rely on Udoka.

Udoka is more just DL scared GM-ing... if a guy has no chance to play you can't say he failed. You can't judge that pick for 2-3 years because the guy won't see the court.

You also have to find your financial edge/inefficiency. We had Don on a rookie deal so that helps A. LOT. If you are allocating a max deal to a center and pg... you need to spread some of the cap resources to the wing. You can't throw the MLE behind that max deal and a first round pick too. Especially when other teams can get a reasonable option on a budget at center. Even splitting the MLE between Bazemore and a backup center would help us avoid the tax and have more roster flexibility. Its pretty amazing to get many big things right but **** up the other stuff that should be easy so spectacularly. I think we need to send DL's white *** back to Houston.

We are notorious for ignoring the wing especially in regards to defense:

Stock and Malone days - we knew we would play Jordan and Pippen and we only had Hornacek, Russell and young Anderson

Deron and Booz days - we knew we would play Kobe and other strong wings and we only had Brewer, AK out of position and young CJ Miles

Don and Rudy days - we knew we would play LeBron, Kawhi and other strong wings, and we only had Royce and Ingles

When will we learn?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We are notorious for ignoring the wing especially in regards to defense:

Stock and Malone days - we knew we would play Jordan and Pippen and we only had Hornacek, Russell and young Anderson

Deron and Booz days - we knew we would play Kobe and other strong wings and we only had Brewer, AK out of position and young CJ Miles

Don and Rudy days - we knew we would play LeBron, Kawhi and other strong wings, and we only had Royce and Ingles

When will we learn?

When in doubt draft a wing... sign a wing... trade for a wing... You can play 3x-4x as many wings as you can centers.