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Jazz vs Timberwolves - Player Efficiency

mdalby

mdalby

Well-Known Member
Very frustrated with the loss. I thought our team had the benefit of the veteran players and continuity from last year to avoid these type of losses. But, we just seem to always have these games.

I was just trying to get a better feel for the players contributions positive and negative towards this game.

So frustrating.

Positive Efficiency: Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks
Negative Efficiency: Missed Shot Attempts + Turnovers

aOW7ol.jpg
 
Personally, I think the impact of each turnover should be worth double the points... as it usually leads to negative impact on other team members having to lose energy to get back on defense, loss of morale and loss of opportunity. So to me 4 turnovers should equal -8 points efficiency. (Why double? It's an arbitrary number I made up.. proper analysis might reveal a better multipllier)
 
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Aneurism said:
Personally, I think the impact of each turnover should be worth double the points... as it usually leads to negative impact on other team members having to lose energy to get back on defense, loss of morale and loss of opportunity. So to me 4 turnovers should equal -12 points efficiency. (Why double? It's an arbitrary number I made up.. proper analysis might reveal a better multipllier)
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If you double 4 dont you get 8?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
str8line said:
Losing by five while your two best scorers go 9-39 FG and 3-14 3PT is not something to worry about. Sucks it happened but it's not an indication that we suck.
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Here’s my beef with this:

Games don’t go to averages. True, averages arise as the result of long-term trends that may bode well over large samples (a season). But anomalies are also more normal than we allow ourselves to believe. Each individual anomaly may itself be rare and an outlier, but not having a few (or even a good size) of these each game is, in itself, a huge outlier. The bigger variable is if teams, despite game-to-game variances, are able to find ways to win games. This isn’t accounted for in the stats. Teams have to find ways to minimize the variants or find ways to compensate in-game and pull out a win. If these two are not present, then a team becomes subject to circumstances in which random anomalies don’t have enough time to average out (a playoff series) and can have drastic consequences. The same concept applies to gambling. The house always wins because, in addition to having a slight edge in the composite numbers, they’re the ones with such large quantities of transactions/bets happening that they will more fully approximate the odds. The individual gambler doesn’t have this luxury. Thus the in-season variabilities can be lost in the composite, but the variabilities could destroy a team in a 7 game series.

So what we need to see is if this team can find ways to win games. We couldn’t find a way to win game 5, 6, or 7, and our arguments about continuity and consistency weren’t exactly on display last night. We’ll see how much that trends.
 
My beef is that the Jazz almost always play to the level of their competition. If they are playing a weaker team on paper they almost never just bow them out. They can get up for the stronger teams and play fantastic and then totally coast against teams they should be able to beat handily. I don't know if there is a way to gather stats on that but it would be interesting to look at. Anyway. Thanks for the analysis.
 
I obviously trust Snyder but I wish when we know things are not working, we would try some different players. I would have loved to see if Oni could have had more success against Russell. The Jazz TOs kinda through off the +/- numbers and the +/- may not be a real reflection on man on man D since there were so many break away opportunities. but it would have been good to see if we can get another opponent high usage defender to have in the rotation.
 
infection said:
Here’s my beef with this:

Games don’t go to averages. True, averages arise as the result of long-term trends that may bode well over large samples (a season). But anomalies are also more normal than we allow ourselves to believe. Each individual anomaly may itself be rare and an outlier, but not having a few (or even a good size) of these each game is, in itself, a huge outlier. The bigger variable is if teams, despite game-to-game variances, are able to find ways to win games. This isn’t accounted for in the stats. Teams have to find ways to minimize the variants or find ways to compensate in-game and pull out a win. If these two are not present, then a team becomes subject to circumstances in which random anomalies don’t have enough time to average out (a playoff series) and can have drastic consequences. The same concept applies to gambling. The house always wins because, in addition to having a slight edge in the composite numbers, they’re the ones with such large quantities of transactions/bets happening that they will more fully approximate the odds. The individual gambler doesn’t have this luxury. Thus the in-season variabilities can be lost in the composite, but the variabilities could destroy a team in a 7 game series.

So what we need to see is if this team can find ways to win games. We couldn’t find a way to win game 5, 6, or 7, and our arguments about continuity and consistency weren’t exactly on display last night. We’ll see how much that trends.
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And that's why stars have to be consistent. Donovan was completely worthless in the first half and Rudy was out with fouls too long. Even though he snapped out of it in the second half, I lay most of the blame on Donovan. He didn't come ready to play. How many games did Stockton have in his whole career like that? Mailman?

Donovan can be amazing but will he ever be consistent enough to lead us where we want to go?
 
str8line said:
And that's why stars have to be consistent. Donovan was completely worthless in the first half and Rudy was out with fouls too long. Even though he snapped out of it in the second half, I lay most of the blame on Donovan. He didn't come ready to play. How many games did Stockton have in his whole career like that? Mailman?

Donovan can be amazing but will he ever be consistent enough to lead us where we want to go?
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The @fishonjazz theory of foul trouble I think needs more implementation. Guy fouls out? Cool. Guy only plays 25 minutes and ends the game with 4 fouls?
 
mdalby said:
I obviously trust Snyder but I wish when we know things are not working, we would try some different players. I would have loved to see if Oni could have had more success against Russell. The Jazz TOs kinda through off the +/- numbers and the +/- may not be a real reflection on man on man D since there were so many break away opportunities. but it would have been good to see if we can get another opponent high usage defender to have in the rotation.
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Agreed. Sometimes coach is too rigid with his game plan. JC should have had more minutes last night. He was the only reason it was close. We also should have blitzed Dlo when KAT was out. He was the only person scoring. It seems like Q has no feel for the flow of the game on occasion.
 
And who was on the Princess last night, especially down the stretch?

We're not really a tough team. Not soft but not tough. Quin needs to figure out a way to get Dok some minutes at some point. He's an enforcer and could set a tone.
 
str8line said:
And who was on the Princess last night, especially down the stretch?

We're not really a tough team. Not soft but not tough. Quin needs to figure out a way to get Dok some minutes at some point. He's an enforcer and could set a tone.
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We need more Shaq and RHJ.
 
Obviously we're only two games into the season so I'm not worried yet, but so far Donovan's efficiency from the bubbly hasn't translated into this new season. He's shooting just 30% from the field and 31% from 3.
 
mdalby said:
Very frustrated with the loss. I thought our team had the benefit of the veteran players and continuity from last year to avoid these type of losses. But, we just seem to always have these games.

I was just trying to get a better feel for the players contributions positive and negative towards this game.

So frustrating.

Positive Efficiency: Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks
Negative Efficiency: Missed Shot Attempts + Turnovers

aOW7ol.jpg
Click to expand...
Games like this are going to happen when your leading scorrer is highly inefficient. GSW learned with Monta, every team Carmello was on learned. Utah will learn.
 
str8line said:
And that's why stars have to be consistent. Donovan was completely worthless in the first half and Rudy was out with fouls too long. Even though he snapped out of it in the second half, I lay most of the blame on Donovan. He didn't come ready to play. How many games did Stockton have in his whole career like that? Mailman?

Donovan can be amazing but will he ever be consistent enough to lead us where we want to go?
Click to expand...
stockton and malone had stinker games, every player does. It is two games and DM was very consistent and improved his efficiency last year. LIke I said it is two games. He is adjusting to trying to get his teammates involved. There was plenty of blame to go around last night. Jazz lost by 5 points and you look at the shooting they should have lost by 20 pts plus. Right now the Clippers are losing to the Mavericks by 47 points at the half. 77 to 30. Now that would be something to be worried about but again it is only one game. Teams and players are going to throw up stinkers every once in a while.


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idestroyedthetoilet said:
Games like this are going to happen when your leading scorrer is highly inefficient. GSW learned with Monta, every team Carmello was on learned. Utah will learn.
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Learn what? None of those teams did ****. So they learn to exit in the 2nd round?
 
That's what age does to you. Older players past their prime will always have games like this. In some day they will remind you of their prime self, in other days they will play like they just came freshly out of retirement.
 
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