Jefferson breaks into top 10, Millsap 11

[franklin]

Fact of the matter is: Al is the focal point of this offense, and was all through last season. The results? Utah was FOURTH in ppg last season, 9th in FG%, and 4th in FTAs. Our Assists should go up, of-couse, and its quite obvious how seriously our offense faltered in the playoffs. However was this because of Al? Or was it because our wings suddenly forgot how to hit open shots? Who knows.

I am all for a more vesatile, multi-dimensional offense. Especially in contrast to last season. But people who are trying describe our team as offensively inept when revolving it around Jefferson are quite incorrect, statically speaking. Well, at least from what i can gather.

You nailed it. Wish I could rep.

Let's hope you and I aren't wildly incorrect with the addition of shooters and a training camp to get everyone on the same page. If Jefferson gets up to 52% shooting, 4.3+ FTAs & 2.6 assists per then I'll be happy with him. That would bump his effective field goal % up somewhere closer to LeBron. I am always baffled at how many no calls go against Jefferson. Just one more call per game would bump his shooting and FTAs way up (52.4% and 4.9 FTAs).

Note to GVC/Numb/NAOS--Jefferson's usage pct isn't in the top 20 and I expect it to go down even further this season with these new additions & youth improvements. This should make all of you a little less negative on the guy.

 

[Siro]

Fact of the matter is: Al is the focal point of this offense, and was all through last season. The results? Utah was FOURTH in ppg last season, 9th in FG%, and 4th in FTAs. Our Assists should go up, of-couse, and its quite obvious how seriously our offense faltered in the playoffs. However was this because of Al? Or was it because our wings suddenly forgot how to hit open shots? Who knows.

I am all for a more vesatile, multi-dimensional offense. Especially in contrast to last season. But people who are trying describe our team as offensively inept when revolving it around Jefferson are quite incorrect, statically speaking. Well, at least from what i can gather.

I typed a long response with stats and everything, but then I changed my mind as this isn't something I feel strongly enough about to debate. I just wanted to say that the Jazz were actually ranked 7th offensively, not 4th. And 21st defensively. They also ranked 13th in possession efficiency (pace).

 

[Ben10]

Jefferson all the way up to #6 on Yahoo's rankings.

Cy's post on this is my feeling also.

 

[theNBAnerd]

the pro-al crowd just used these two arguments, almost back-to-back:

1) our offense became a great offense because we revolved everything around al.
2) al isn't a ballhog because his usage was so low compared to other teams' stars.

so which was it? al was our staple on every play? or he had a very low usage. cuz you kinda can't have it both ways on this one.

 

[Deleted member 848]

the pro-al crowd just used these two arguments, almost back-to-back:

1) our offense became a great offense because we revolved everything around al.
2) al isn't a ballhog because his usage was so low compared to other teams' stars.

so which was it? al was our staple on every play? or he had a very low usage. cuz you kinda can't have it both ways on this one.

The Phoenix Suns offense revolved around Steve Nash.

He had nearly less than half the Usage percentage of Kobe Bryant last season.

 

[GVC]

Not to break up the Dal-Frank circle jerk, but it might be worthwhile to consider that the Jazz were 4th in fastbreak points per game and 3rd in offensive rebounds last season. That's not to say Al wasn't an offensive difference maker (you know, since he was). The problem with Al, as I see it, is that he's really only effective with the ball in his hands in the halfcourt. He doesn't see the court particularly well, is among the slowest players in the league to react to the game, take action and run the floor (he may just be the slowest player in transition), does little off the ball (weak screens, slow to get into position/out of the way, etc.) and, largely as a result, is ill suited for a complementary role. You either build around Al or he gets in the way. Can a team built around Al (at least 3 dudes who can get out in transition, at least 3 who can hit 3s consistently, and an elite weakside defender in the starting lineup IMO...sorta what the Jazz are building, coincidentally) contend? I don't think so. Further, I ****ing hate the brand of basketball Al forces his teams to play. Not the least bit entertaining. As a Jazz fan, it offends me.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I typed a long response with stats and everything, but then I changed my mind as this isn't something I feel strongly enough about to debate. I just wanted to say that the Jazz were actually ranked 7th offensively, not 4th. And 21st defensively. They also ranked 13th in possession efficiency (pace).

y u so dummy

 

[NUMBERICA]

Not to break up the Dal-Frank circle jerk, but it might be worthwhile to consider that the Jazz were 4th in fastbreak points per game and 3rd in offensive rebounds last season. That's not to say Al wasn't an offensive difference maker (you know, since he was). The problem with Al, as I see it, is that he's really only effective with the ball in his hands in the halfcourt. He doesn't see the court particularly well, is among the slowest players in the league to react to the game, take action and run the floor (he may just be the slowest player in transition), does little off the ball (weak screens, slow to get into position/out of the way, etc.) and, largely as a result, is ill suited for a complementary role. You either build around Al or he gets in the way. Can a team built around Al (at least 3 dudes who can get out in transition, at least 3 who can hit 3s consistently, and an elite weakside defender in the starting lineup IMO...sorta what the Jazz are building, coincidentally) contend? I don't think so. Further, I ****ing hate the brand of basketball Al forces his teams to play. Not the least bit entertaining. As a Jazz fan, it offends me.

Strong words that I strongly agree with.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Anyway, let's not change the subject, Al is great at fake basketball.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Not to break up the Dal-Frank circle jerk, but it might be worthwhile to consider that the Jazz were 4th in fastbreak points per game and 3rd in offensive rebounds last season. That's not to say Al wasn't an offensive difference maker (you know, since he was). The problem with Al, as I see it, is that he's really only effective with the ball in his hands in the halfcourt. He doesn't see the court particularly well, is among the slowest players in the league to react to the game, take action and run the floor (he may just be the slowest player in transition), does little off the ball (weak screens, slow to get into position/out of the way, etc.) and, largely as a result, is ill suited for a complementary role. You either build around Al or he gets in the way. Can a team built around Al (at least 3 dudes who can get out in transition, at least 3 who can hit 3s consistently, and an elite weakside defender in the starting lineup IMO...sorta what the Jazz are building, coincidentally) contend? I don't think so. Further, I ****ing hate the brand of basketball Al forces his teams to play. Not the least bit entertaining. As a Jazz fan, it offends me.

Before I get to the bolded point, I must say that I miss the more aesthetically-pleasing Jazz offense of old very much. Eons ahead of last season's offense in terms of entertainment.


However: with a proper training camp, perhaps we can make our offense a lot more dynamic than last season. By this, I mean we can focus on implementing different screens, cuts, pick and rolls, and specifically arranging Hi-Lo plays (a la 2010 Jazz with Dwill, Sap and Al when Sloan was still here) for our 4s and 5s.



As far as your bolded point is concerned, why exactly do you think that that sort of offense will never contend, specifically? I know I know, nobody since Olajuwon has really pulled off anything similar. But I would say that giving things a whirl this season would provide an interesting experiment. Theoretically, if we have a similar offense to last season (might take a hit on the fastbreak-pointage with Harris's departure) + 3 point shooters, we might be one of the better offensive teams.

 

[GVC]

As far as your bolded point is concerned, why exactly do you think that that sort of offense will never contend, specifically?

Because Al's neither efficient nor dynamic enough to make it work.

 

[GVC]

However: with a proper training camp, perhaps we can make our offense a lot more dynamic than last season. By this, I mean we can focus on implementing different screens, cuts, pick and rolls, and specifically arranging Hi-Lo plays (a la 2010 Jazz with Dwill, Sap and Al when Sloan was still here) for our 4s and 5s.

Watch some Jazz-era Carlos Boozer video, and try to envision Al reacting as quickly to the game, and setting and using screens as well as Boozer did. If Al is on the team, getting big minutes, we're stuck with the "dump it in and stand around" offense.