As much as I'd love to troll the hell out of this thead (puns intended)--
Plenty of Catholics hang their hats on both reproductive sex only & no abortion whatsoever. Seems kind of worldview shattering having either crumble under knew revelation, no?
Jesus May Have Been Married
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As much as I'd love to troll the hell out of this thead (puns intended)--
Plenty of Catholics hang their hats on both reproductive sex only & no abortion whatsoever. Seems kind of worldview shattering having either crumble under knew revelation, no?
How would this do that?
Former Member
Banned
I'm sorry. How do you relate those two topics with "Christ being or not being married" (Which I am pretty sure is only a tradition, not dogma) and "priestly celibacy" which is only a discipline.
You are bringing up the natural law argument (Which I am not sure if it is a dogma or not, I will look it up) and the question of when life begins which has not been dogmatically stated (Thomas Aquinas believed it was three months after conception). The only thing your two topics have in common with the discussion in the thread is that they are both not dogmas. The Catholic perspective is technically open to change on them... technically.
I would love to address your concerns better, but please ask the question directly. I do not want to impose that my position is "right," I've avoided threads like this for that reason. I would be more than happy to answer questions from my perspective of faith, however, I pray the dialogue and tone is civil and empathetic.
The last part was not directed towards franklin specifically. It was just a general comment.
Former Member
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BTW... if Christ was married. It does not mean that he "sinned"... sex is a beautiful thing in the context of the marriage.
GoJazz
Well-Known Member
Statement by Brigham Young, second prophet of the LDS church:
"The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with "HIS TRAIN; I do not know who they were, unless his wives and children;" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13. page 309)
Not just married but married to multiple wives...
"The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with "HIS TRAIN; I do not know who they were, unless his wives and children;" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13. page 309)
Not just married but married to multiple wives...
Former Member
Banned
Most of the arguments that claim Christ was married point towards the Wedding Feast at Cana or when Christ was anointed on the feet with perfume by a woman before his death. Thank you for the perspective, very interesting.
Pyramid of reasoning. Christ celibate>>celibacy good, screwing bad>>procreation necessary...>>sex only for purposes of procreation>>horny kids getting some only 5 times in 15 years due to some previously incorrect doctrine (which may or may not have been altered by the inner circle & lost until the coptics resurrected it).
The abortion link was more complex, but, alas, I drink I forget. Find my genius in there if you care to think about things.
I don't know. Wouldn't the curious LDS consider "only begotten" to assume an equivalent earthly life that already included marriage & a wife(s) whose names are now protected from vain cursings?
Former Member
Banned
Question. What is the context of the quote? Which temple?
Former Member
Banned
I do care to think about things. In fact, I'm currently majoring in philosophy, however, I dare not impose "your genius"... I'll let you do that.
I will attempt to contemplate your connection, however.
Let me know when that connection needs a jump start.
Avoiding explanation on the procreation only angle then?
GoJazz
Well-Known Member
On October 6, 1854, Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde stated,
"How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him [Jesus]? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous... When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, 'And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?' She said unto them,' Because they have taken away my Lord,' or husband, 'and I know not where they have laid him.' And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.' Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife. These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife" (Journal of Discourses 2:81).
In that same talk he went on to say:
"Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses 2:82).
"How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him [Jesus]? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous... When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, 'And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?' She said unto them,' Because they have taken away my Lord,' or husband, 'and I know not where they have laid him.' And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.' Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife. These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife" (Journal of Discourses 2:81).
In that same talk he went on to say:
"Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses 2:82).