Jimmer (I was a skeptic as well)

[BENTLEY]

If Utah takes Kanter @ #3 and wants Jimmer @ #12, but he is gone, they will use next season's GSW/NJN pick alone or in combination with the #12.
I think there are strong PG prospects in the 2012 draft, like Kendall Marshall, Austin Rivers, and Marquis Teague, so it might be better to keep Devin Harris and the #12 this year wait for that new franchise PG next year

Yeah, there are decent PGs every year, and decent is all you need. I'm over the whole elite PG thing. But 2012 is much stronger at the wing than at the point. That's where the Jazz can get their starting SF - unless they think Williams can handle the position.

 

[Guitaro]

Yeah, there are decent PGs every year, and decent is all you need. I'm over the whole elite PG thing. But 2012 is much stronger at the wing than at the point. That's where the Jazz can get their starting SF - unless they think Williams can handle the position.

The Jazz haven't always been patient enough to build through the draft and I think that's been the biggest reason why they haven't won it all yet. They get just enough talent to do well but never enough to be dominant, except for a couple seasons. Even during the Stockalone years, they didn't ever get that extra talent needed to get past Jordippen.

I would really like to see the Jazz pick the BPA at every opportunity and keep doing that. They need to build up a talented roster like OKC did. That means being patient and acquiring more draft picks through trades or purchases. If someone doesn't fit, then trade for another pick or a different player.

If done correctly, will take a few seasons to get every position truly covered. Of course, we already have some nice players in certain positions, I just think we need more talent like we've been getting lately, more lottery talent to go along with the ones with heart. Make sense?

 

[Borat]

I was actually hoping his workouts would go poorly, so he could slide to 12, but now I think there is a little chance he falls to us. Think about the draft prospects. You got, Irving, Kanter, Knight, Williams, Biyomobo, Jonas, Walker who perhaps have a better upside. And even out of these 7 there are some, like Walker, who may not even better prospects. Regardless, Jimmer is definitely top 8 in this draft. Maybe, maybe we can add Motiejunas to this list of top guys, making it 9. So, if we get Jimmer at 12, it would be huge. If you look at other guys outside these 8-9, I am just not that excited.

M Morris is undersized (6-7 without shoes) PF, Junior, who will be 22 in a few months. At almost the same age as Jimmer, he did not have anywhere near a good career Jimmer did, and Jimmer is actually more athletic, and not undersized.

Vesely is 21, who played just all right for a pretty bad Adriatic League in Europe. Can't shoot the ball to save his life. Just has a bust written all over him.

Singleton, while a good defender at College level, brings 43% shooting from PF spot, en route to just 13 ppg. Also turns 22 later this year. He just has nowhere near Jimmer's accomplishments.

Leonard is another unexciting prospect. He did not face great competition and only managed to shoot 44% FG from the forward spot, which is very little. Especially given level of opposition. Has no 3 point range either. Granted he is a sophomore and a good rebounder, but his poor FG shooting numbers actually have gone down from his freshman year. Just not that exciting as a prospect.

Brooks is also a senior, but has not accomplished as much as Jimmer.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The Jazz haven't always been patient enough to build through the draft and I think that's been the biggest reason why they haven't won it all yet.

Criticizing the Jazz for lack of patience? Now I've heard everything. They are easily the most patient franchise in the NBA. I hear them routinely criticized for their methodical ways. Teams that have lots of high draft picks normally suck for a long time. Is that the sort of patience you'd like to see?

 

[Guitaro]

Criticizing the Jazz for lack of patience? Now I've heard everything. They are easily the most patient franchise in the NBA. I hear them routinely criticized for their methodical ways. Teams that have lots of high draft picks normally suck for a long time. Is that the sort of patience you'd like to see?

You're missing the point. The Jazz don't go full bore into rebuilding. They tend to patch things instead. I'm saying go full bore into rebuilding through the draft. That means showing the patience necessary to develop and stack young players and picks. No more trading or acquiring players with huge contracts that aren't what we need. To me, that's impatient.

It seems to take a few losing seasons and/or high lottery picks or tons of money to make a championship team. The Jazz, through their constant patching, don't seem to lose enough to get high lottery picks nor do they have enough revenue to justify spending a ton of money. In other words, it's no wonder they haven't won yet. They're always stuck in a middle ground. Stockton and Malone were both lottery picks (Stockton pretty much). Deron Williams was a lottery pick. Look at how well the team did once we had an lottery pick as our team anchor. Make sense?

This draft doesn't really have that anchor. Some say Irving and Williams are close. Some also say Kanter could be. Some players will generate excitement and fans support. However, is that enough to consider them anchors?

Next year's draft is supposed to have some anchors in it. So if we get some lottery talent this year and are able to get an anchor next year along with more lottery talent with GS's pick then I predict we'll have another launch in wins. We just need to keep adding more lottery talent each year until we're stacked enough. No more of this patching and just staying afloat.

 

[Guitaro]

Also, the teams that suck don't give their coaching staff long enough to do their job. They also pick a mishmash of players with no plan. The Jazz have structure and quality scouting. We have traditionally done very well in the draft, regardless of where we're picking. Therefore, if the Jazz have a better pool to pick from, the chances of them picking the BPA is better, in my opinion, than most franchises out there.

I would think we'd do just as well as OKC has done as long as we have that anchor. In their case, it's Durant.

Miami is another great example of going full bore. They completely flushed their cap space to rebuild through free agents. Without all that cap space, they couldn't have pulled it off. Now, the Jazz have historically not been good at recruiting free agents as well as some, but I think that's just a matter of perception. I think with the right recruiting methods, we could be very successful in the free agent market.

Of course, I believe that it will take, again, a true lottery anchor or two (more likely two) and other young talent to get people to say "I want to go play with my friends in Utah cuz I know a few of them from playing in AAU together." I heard both Knight and Walker say that about Sacramento. I think that should give small market GMs an idea of another way to recruit free agents, and even draft picks, and get them excited about playing here.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Also, the teams that suck don't give their coaching staff long enough to do their job. They also pick a mishmash of players with no plan. The Jazz have structure and quality scouting. We have traditionally done very well in the draft, regardless of where we're picking. Therefore, if the Jazz have a better pool to pick from, the chances of them picking the BPA is better, in my opinion, than most franchises out there.

I would think we'd do just as well as OKC has done as long as we have that anchor. In their case, it's Durant.

Miami is another great example of going full bore. They completely flushed their cap space to rebuild through free agents. Without all that cap space, they couldn't have pulled it off. Now, the Jazz have historically not been good at recruiting free agents as well as some, but I think that's just a matter of perception. I think with the right recruiting methods, we could be very successful in the free agent market.

Of course, I believe that it will take, again, a true lottery anchor or two (more likely two) and other young talent to get people to say "I want to go play with my friends in Utah cuz I know a few of them from playing in AAU together." I heard both Knight and Walker say that about Sacramento. I think that should give small market GMs an idea of another way to recruit free agents, and even draft picks, and get them excited about playing here.

You confused me because you're using the word patience in a way I've never heard it used before. I think most people would agree with me that patching holes is not normally considered a sign of impatience. As for Sacramento successfully recruiting players, be sure to remind me when that produces results.

Bottom line is that while I'm dying for the Jazz to win a championship, I have to admit that they've done an impressive job of managing their team for a long time. I'm particularly impressed with the value they got out of DWill. IMO, KOC killed the nets in that trade. If they had gone through a long period of sucking in order to build through the draft in the traditional way there's a good chance they would have been relocated partway through the process like OKC was.

 

[Guitaro]

You confused me because you're using the word patience in a way I've never heard it used before. I think most people would agree with me that patching holes is not normally considered a sign of impatience. As for Sacramento successfully recruiting players, be sure to remind me when that produces results.

Bottom line is that while I'm dying for the Jazz to win a championship, I have to admit that they've done an impressive job of managing their team for a long time. I'm particularly impressed with the value they got out of DWill. IMO, KOC killed the nets in that trade. If they had gone through a long period of sucking in order to build through the draft in the traditional way there's a good chance they would have been relocated partway through the process like OKC was.

It's impatient because instead of building the most time-tested proven way, they rush to fill the gaps with players that keep the fans happy instead.

Sacramento doesn't use that tactic, that's my point. They stink because they have that and don't use it. Miami and DWade used it. Lebron and Wade have known each other since before the joined the NBA. I'm not sure about Bosh, but I imagine they knew him as well. Lots of reporters cover how the NBA has become a teams of superfriends because the trend is moving away from having your own team to joining other superstars to form superteams or superfriends (like the animated series). lol

I also have been impressed with how much better they've done versus many small markets. I would say only San Antonio has done a better job. However, look at how they started it all. They got an anchor in the lottery. Dallas started their success with a smart trade to get an anchor in the lottery. In other words, we don't have to stink to make it happen. We just have to know who we want and who's the best? The rest is giving up enough to get it without giving up too much.

 

[Guitaro]

..and yes, the Jazz did better on the DWill trade, it's starting to appear. Although, they believe that DWill is their anchor. They've been floating along without a true one for a few years now.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Personally, I just don't think BYU's coach is any good.

Umm, 159-45 in six seasons for Dave Rose. His WORST year was his first when his team went just 20-9 (after 9-21 the year before under Steve Cleveland). Yep, Rose is a horrible coach. I mean with all the talent that flocks to the party school known as BYU, his teams should have won multiple championships by now. After all, doesn't he get the best players from the toughest inner-city neighborhoods? Time to ask for his resignation and move on to the next guy, If he hasn't won a title by now, his career is a failure.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

It's impatient because instead of building the most time-tested proven way, they rush to fill the gaps with players that keep the fans happy instead.

Sacramento doesn't use that tactic, that's my point.

You completely confuse me every time you use Sacramento as an example to shore up your argument. Interesting tactic, you win. Nice work.