Job creators? Tax cuts? Unions? Health care? Social Security? HA!

[Gyp Rosetti]

So I copied the part of Ms Serp's post that was relevant to Verizon's taxes and emailed it to the CTJ. Here is the response I got:

"CTJ compiles its information about Verizon and the other corporations we study from the 10-Ks that they file each year with the SEC. The taxes Verizon says it paid in “actual cash” do not split out U.S. taxes from worldwide taxes, so that’s not helpful. I think we will agree that the question here is what taxes Verizon paid to the U.S. government for its U.S. profits, and not what Verizon paid to foreign governments on profits it made in other countries.

It seems that the commenter agrees with CTJ that the only way you can say Verizon paid taxes in 2010 would be to count the “deferred” taxes for 2010 along with the “current” taxes. So I would just ask one question: Are the “deferred” taxes for 2010 taxes that Verizon ACTUALLY paid in 2010?

No, they’re not. They did not actually pay these taxes in 2010. And if you only count the taxes Verizon actually paid in 2010 (current taxes for 2010) then you find that Verizon had negative tax liability in 2010. That’s why our report says they had negative tax liability in 2010. Where is the disagreement here?

It’s often the case that these deferred taxes are never paid because the companies find ways to defer them each year. But let’s assume they are eventually paid. If the “deferred” taxes for 2010 are actually paid in 2012, they will show up as “current” taxes in 2012. In other words, if you want to track what taxes corporations are actually paying each year, you need to focus on the “current” taxes paid for each year. "


So, it seems they are sticking to their guns on this and claiming Verizon did not pay any taxes. Well, at least not any US taxes.

Also, I must note again that Verizon actually responded to the CTJ's claims. And in Verizon's response they claimed they followed all tax laws but never said they actually paid any taxes.

I'll ask MsSerp to read this but at this point, I trust her, a future partner at a Big 3 firm and maybe the smartest person I've ever known, and the Pearl, over some hack journalist at CTJ who's degree in journalism doesn't qualify him to know what the **** he's talking about when it comes to 10-K's and the like. Did you really think the ******* was going to admit defeat and say, oh yeah, my bad, we totally got it wrong? C'mon man.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I'll ask MsSerp to read this but at this point, I trust her, a future partner at a Big 3 firm and maybe the smartest person I've ever known, and the Pearl, over some hack journalist at CTJ who's degree in journalism doesn't qualify him to know what the **** he's talking about when it comes to 10-K's and the like. Did you really think the ******* was going to admit defeat and say, oh yeah, my bad, we totally got it wrong? C'mon man.

I agree with your premise, but one correction- they have accountants and the like working there. They aren't just a bunch of journalists. Of course you're going to trust your wife/girlfriend/whatever over some stranger, that's totally understandable. But these guys aren't just a bunch of hack journalists, they're supposedly experts in what they do.

 

[sirkickyass]

Simmer down guys.

 

[Scat]

Simmer down guys.

Simma' down!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHak7veAz3w&feature=related

 

[InGameStrategy]

2) This post began with a discussion in support of the Verizon union workers. In the interest of full disclosure, I will acknowledge I am not personally a huge proponent of unions; I think they served their purpose in the early part of the 20th century and mostly, have no place in the 21st century and are responsible for the decline of many American businesses.

While much of the statements made in this string of posts are thoughtful and accurate, the above statement is greatly exaggerated. Here's a counterweight: without unions, we wouldn't have time for this message board because our oppressive bosses wouldn't give us the time off to read or post--and we might not have the income to do so.

The other key figure thrown around by the CWA is that Verizon is asking for concessions of $20K per employee in pay and benefits. While that may be a true statement (I personally do not know enough about the specifics to dispute that), the vast majority of the $20K is related to fringe benefits. Most people think that companies only pay their salary and forget about the other costs that employers bear related to each employee (cost of vacation and sick time, health benefits, retiree medical benefits, pension payments, 401k matching, etc.) Verizon is not asking that each employee to forfeit $20K in salary, but rather that they forego some of the fringe benefits Verizon has previously provided but has determined that in the current economy, are no longer feasible to provide.

For many people, "fringe benefits" such as health benefits aren't "fringe" at all, and whether they receive the health benefits or an equivalent dollar amount, it's still value. For some people, the fringe benefit of health might be a bigger benefit than the equivalent cash because the patient might not be able to pay for an equivalent individual plan (or part of a group plan) with the same amount of value.

The reality is that in this economy, Verizon will lose customers and ultimately reduce is revenues while still operating with the same extensive infrastructure if it raises prices on its cable, internet, and landline business and that even without these fringe benefits, there are thousands of American workers who would gladly line up for those jobs. These two facts indicate that Verizon is just simply responding to the change in economic circumstances and is doing so in a more timely manner than the airline and automotive industries did.

This last paragraph is likely true.

 

[Deleted member 365]

A true conservative is for less govt across the board.

I have yet to meet a conservative that asks for less government in social matters.

 

[Scat]

I have yet to meet a conservative that asks for less government in social matters.

You need to converse with a larger pool of people.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I agree with your premise, but one correction- they have accountants and the like working there. They aren't just a bunch of journalists. Of course you're going to trust your wife/girlfriend/whatever over some stranger, that's totally understandable. But these guys aren't just a bunch of hack journalists, they're supposedly experts in what they do.

There's a difference between an accountant and a CPA/Big Three partner.

I doubt the CTJ is paying their "accountants" 500K a year to be on staff for when such articles and issues arise.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

While much of the statements made in this string of posts are thoughtful and accurate, the above statement is greatly exaggerated. Here's a counterweight: without unions, we wouldn't have time for this message board because our oppressive bosses wouldn't give us the time off to read or post--and we might not have the income to do so.

For many people, "fringe benefits" such as health benefits aren't "fringe" at all, and whether they receive the health benefits or an equivalent dollar amount, it's still value. For some people, the fringe benefit of health might be a bigger benefit than the equivalent cash because the patient might not be able to pay for an equivalent individual plan (or part of a group plan) with the same amount of value.

This last paragraph is likely true.

I think much of what MsSerp says about unions being archaic, so to speak, comes from the last point with which you agreed. Unfortunately our economy can simply not sustain such pensions and benefits any more. As a teacher myself, I find it absolutely absurd that I can retire at 55 and then make about $55,000 for the rest of my life for sitting at home and doing jack ****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that math isn't going to work long-term, especially as our population grows and our medicine improves. Hence why Christie is up our asses out here. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that receiving such money (and bennies) is absurd. I'm not saying we shouldn't receive a pension or bennies upon retirement. But that retirement age and percentage is ridiculous. Verizon's case is obviously different because they're private, not public like teachers, cops, etcetera but I think you see my point.

 

[One Brow]

I have yet to meet a conservative that asks for less government in social matters.

That's because `people who want less gvernemnt in both business and social matters are usually libertaians, not conservative, and are more likely to describve themseves as the "true liberals".

 

[SaltyDawg]

There's a difference between an accountant and a CPA/Big Three partner.

I doubt the CTJ is paying their "accountants" 500K a year to be on staff for when such articles and issues arise.

I doubt they're paying anyone 500k either. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of those CPAs making 500k per year are also consultants for CTJ on the side. And some of those CPAs who used to be making 500k that are now retired are also consulting for the CPA on a part time basis.

Not saying this is the case (I don't work for the CTJ so I have no idea who works there), but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I think much of what MsSerp says about unions being archaic, so to speak, comes from the last point with which you agreed. Unfortunately our economy can simply not sustain such pensions and benefits any more. As a teacher myself, I find it absolutely absurd that I can retire at 55 and then make about $55,000 for the rest of my life for sitting at home and doing jack ****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that math isn't going to work long-term, especially as our population grows and our medicine improves. Hence why Christie is up our asses out here. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that receiving such money (and bennies) is absurd. I'm not saying we shouldn't receive a pension or bennies upon retirement. But that retirement age and percentage is ridiculous. Verizon's case is obviously different because they're private, not public like teachers, cops, etcetera but I think you see my point.

I'm pretty sure they will let you forfeit yours if you truly feel that it's absurd for you to receive it.

Or are you saying you want yours, but it's absurd for other people to receive it?