John Stockton’s dirty little secret

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Thee jazz fan, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

    7,725
    4,329
    303
    May 27, 2010
    The only thing Bill Russell has on Greg Oden is longevity and playing with John Havlicek.

    Dat longevity doe.
     
    NUMBERICA likes this.

  2. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    19,211
    2,313
    263
    Jul 7, 2010
    This. CP3 is solidly in the top of the 2nd tier of NBA point guards. Tier one includes players like Stockton, Magic, Thomas, etc. CP3 is just not on that level.
     
    fishonjazz likes this.
  3. gomretat

    gomretat Well-Known Member

    1,310
    188
    113
    Jun 15, 2010
    I personally think Malone benefited more then Stock from the relationship but that is obviously pure speculation and they clearly both benefited. However, I think that is always true. Name that greats that did not have another great with them that had a significant impact on what they accomplished. There are a few but it is a very short list. While you are at it, name the 5 all time PGs you put in front of Stock. Curious what your list is since you brought that up as the number. I put Magic and Oscar in front of him but not sure who else. I think his assist record will never be broken and his steals record will last quite some time.
     
  4. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Oscar and Magic were great, but they were physically gifted athletes with a huge built in mismatch every time they stepped on the court, but in terms of pg play Stockton did it with as close to perfection as you can do it. Maybe Magic and Oscar were better all around players thanks to their size and athleticism, but pound for pound Stockton was the best ever to play in the nba period!!
     
  5. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    Here is the peak season for both players.

    https://www.basketball-reference.co...kton&y2=1989&player_id2=stockjo01&idx=players

    Cp3 at his peak was better than Stockton at his peak according to these stats.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  6. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    47,457
    4,987
    263
    Nov 4, 2010
  7. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    I mean according to these CP3 was better at almost everything.

    But I do agree Stockton was better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  8. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    I dont think CP3 was better than Stockton but at both of their peaks CP3 has better stats.
     
  9. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Different era’s and that wasn’t Stockton’s peak. The very next year was


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    Okay, stats wise CP3 was still better than that year as well. I do agree it was a different era. Stockton also had a lot more talent on his team at that point than CP3 did. Those were some pretty solid Jazz teams that didnt do well in the playoffs. Stockton, Malone, Darrell Griffith, Mark Eaton, and Thurl Bailey.

    https://www.basketball-reference.co...ct=John+Stockton&player_id2=stockjo01&y2=1990
     
  11. Zombie

    Zombie Well-Known Member

    2,344
    882
    163
    Dec 20, 2011
    Huh. Those stats seem to show that CP took more shots than Stockton, but Stockton shot a higher efg and had more assists, the only definitive advantage Paul had was in rebounds.
     
  12. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    It depends which year you are talking about. But either one he had a lot more advantages than just rebounds and scoring more points is kind of a big difference. The year thee claims is Stocktons best year CP3 has a better defensive rating, they had the same offensive rating, CP3 had less turnovers, scored more points per 100 possessions and overall, more steals, fouled less, much higher VORP, significantly higher PER, higher OWS and DWS, better OBPM and DBPM, much higher BPM, higher steal %, got the FT line more and shot better there.

    The difference in shooting percentage is mostly that CP3 attempted more 3s. They basically shot the same percentage from 2 only a .003% difference. Stockton did have more assists and he did shoot better from 3 that year although on less than 1/2 the attempts. The assists % was in Stocktons favor but it was 57.4 vs 54.5.

    I dont think CP3 is better than Stockton but the stats for their peak season are in CP3s favor. I am not sure how you could claim otherwise. It was a different era, they were playing with different rules, they had very different teammates and many other reasons but those stats are not in Stocktons favor from a numbers standpoint. I think Stockton is better personally but not because of these stats in their peak years.
     
  13. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    They are showing shard wood classic game, jazz vs Spurs game from 1991. I just saw Stockton drive baseline for a layup, he went the entire way dribbling with his left hand.
     
  14. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    It’s Stockton’s 28 assist game
     
  15. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Watching this game, Stockton dribbled plenty with his left
     
  16. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Side note. I hate watching a game and not ever knowing the score or time in the game. They rarely ever showed either back in the day, so annoying
     
  17. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    I’m so pissed off right now!! Stockton uses his left hand all the time.

    @Ron Mexico, you’re an idiot. I demand you turn in your fan card and decoder ring
     
  18. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Blue Edward sucked ***!!!
     
  19. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    9,523
    1,950
    228
    May 26, 2010
    For saying I think is Stockton better? Or for stating facts about the stats?
     
  20. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

    19,752
    1,720
    228
    Dec 27, 2010
    Just like it’s true that you can’t believe everything you read on the internet, it’s equally true for stats. Had Stockton shot more threes the point difference would’ve been much closer. What isn’t close is assists and steals and fg%.

    You’re every bit as bad as an espn analyst who don’t bother to watch games but only look at stats, and completely ignore the different era’s, lets not forget the rules of today are much more conducive to offense, no hand checking and less physical with more spacing. Just watching the two play, Stockton had the more diverse game. Stockton was a better shooter finisher passer and defender, and the most important category, he was a better winner and more clutch.

    And you need to turn in your fan card, not because you idiotically think his stats are better but becauseyou deliberately chose the year before when Stockton had a lesser season, that’s why!!

    And your anidiot because of your blind faith in pure stats, thread!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page