John Stockton: Writes Plea for Capitol Rioter

[One Brow]

Honest question. Do you really think the majority of people there were trying to overthrow the government? Or do you think the majority wanted their fears and concerns heard by the media and other politicans?

I think every person who stayed on the Capitol lawn (which was the majority, AFAICT) was engaged in legitimate protest. The notion that their fears and concerns were not being heard by the media, when they were getting almost 24/7 coverage in the media, is laughable, but does not make the protest illegitimate.

The people who went into the Capitol are a mixed bag. Probably there were some that were just along for the impromptu tour, but other were clearly looking to overturn the recognition of the ballots cast by the Electoral College. The degree of innocence or guilt of any individual person is beyond my ken; the prosecutors have been sorting that out.

Not too disimilar to the BLM protests. Were there innocent people with a legitment concerns at both? Yes. Were there bad characters with ill intent at both? Yes.

As long as you keep referring to "BLM protests", as opposed to policing protests, social justice protests, etc., you're putting forth a demonstrably false narrative and undercutting your own reliability.

Does Stockton's support over a friend who had fears and concerns of a stolen election make him a worse person? I don't think so.

It doesn't "make" him anything. It just reveals more of who he has always been.

 

[One Brow]

"which could have ended our democracy"
Maybe I stretched his meaning too far, but that's how it sounded taking the whole post into account.

I'm ok if people in general, or even you, are miffed about the first part.
This place has morphed from light hearted joking and light hazing with decent discussion to minimal actual discussion/discourse due to toxicity, flaming, accusation, and labeling.

I rarely want to interact with posters these days mainly for that reason. There is no, or minimal respect for other people or other opinions. It's hard not to respond defensively and/or not flame back.
I don't need that, I have enough going on in life that I can't control. Why intentionally enter a Mad Max free for all if I can just not.

Even (and especially) when we disagree, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. I want to be clear on that. I have no desire to pull you into an argument, because I know you find them distasteful and oppressive.

Many people, due to the circumstances of their lives, found some of that light-hearted joking and hazing to be hurtful and impede their healing. I know it was not intended that way. However, I don't see the toxicity as having risen, but rather having been revealed. Further, at least when questioned, I've been pretty clear that I see myself as suffering from many of the same issues that I see in others. I see defensiveness as a refusal to a call to change, because who wants to change when things are perceived as good?

 

[Brsn]

It doesn't "make" him anything. It just reveals more of who he has always been.

So it reveals that he is the GOAT Jazz player? Who maded the biggest shot in Jazz history. I agree with this. Even if his political ideologies don't align with One Brow that remains true.

 

[One Brow]

So it reveals that he is the GOAT Jazz player? Who maded the biggest shot in Jazz history. I agree with this. Even if his political ideologies don't align with One Brow that remains true.

It doesn't reveal his basketball skill, but I agree with the rest of that.

 

[LogGrad98]

If 2000 non trained idiots storming the Capitol building in protest of the election count would end our democracy then we have some serious problems. Sept 11 didn't even come close to taking down our democracy, and if this did we have regressed tremendously. Are we so fragile now?

By this logic attempted murder shouldn't be a thing. After all, they didn't succeed in the murder. If they were competent murderers the guy would be dead now. So just let it go, amirite?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

you've got to rock the soda machine a few times before you knock it over.

So it was a "gateway" crime leading to something worse?
I could be wrong, but I didn't think the gateway mentality would be embraced here.

This was a last ditch effort to hold on to the Presidency by Trump and his minions. There was no 2nd or 3rd "rock" coming to the soda machine. They failed as they should have, not that they had an actual plan.
I do understand the fear of more events like it escalating and turning serious though, but imo the reality is that the event was a one time, spur of the moment thing that was highly stupid and part of a group frenzy of sorts. It was stupid, but not an actual threat to our government. It caught the defenses of the Capitol off guard once, that won't happen again when congress is in session. They will have plan A, B, and C now to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

By this logic attempted murder shouldn't be a thing. After all, they didn't succeed in the murder. If they were competent murderers the guy would be dead now. So just let it go, amirite?

Do you penalize attempted murder the same as you do murder that succeeds? amirite?

That wasn't even the point of what I said anyways.

 

[LogGrad98]

When I hear someone say "BLM riots" I know that they don't know what happened other than this idea in their head that BLM got onstage and said "Ready, set, BURN IT ALL DOWN!!!" and then violent protests ensued.

Official BLM demonstrations happened during daylight hours and specifically condemned violence and rioting. Well after BLM events were over people began to demonstrate independent of the BLM organization and many of those demonstrations become violent, primarily in the form of vandalism and property destruction.

There was an important message being delivered in the wake of the George Floyd murder. Luckily (sarcasm) many people have been able to avoid that message because there were violent protests that they point to while dismissing the idea that there is a real problem in our society that needs to be addressed.

 

[oneye]

Protests are very appropriate form of exercising opinions and democracy, riots are not. January 6th was inexcusable. So were all of the BLM riots which set the current tone for rioting being acceptable. If you separate the 6th from the BLM ones it is only because it fits your political preference.

Oh sir, people don't want to have this conversation or pretend any relevance. Both can be bad, and both have been excused waaaaay to much by their respective side.

 

[oneye]

Like... storming the capitol and trying to force an election to not be certified? Like... this type of "believing their ideologies and politics are gods law"? It's shocking to me that publicly stated disagreement on an internet forum is the act tha tsome consider intolerant and "forcing an opinion", but actually storming the freaking Capitol while it's trying to certify an election is some benign "difference of opinion". No, actually one of them is protected speech and one of them is a crime. You can see which one is which by the fact that one of them is in front of court of law and awaiting sentencing and the other one can and is being challenged by other forum members openly and without any repercussions.

No one ****ing disagrees with this you moron. Would most people write a letter like that for someone they know who made a terrible mistake? Yeah. If I had a friend who did something so incredibly stupid I would not simply throw them under the bus. He didn't defend what the person did, he defended the persons character as he knows it.

 

[oneye]

We arent as disgusting as donovan though right?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

To be clear I'm including myself in that statement, I'm a worse person than John Stockton. But this is a good one I'll admit.

 

[oneye]

Except, there was violence at only one BLM event, and they kicked out the guy that caused it (who later turned out to be a Jan 6 rioter). There was violence at many protests, but long after BLM was gone.

Nah.