Jon Stewart on white privilege (cc: unnamed posters... etc.)

HighlandHomie

Well-Known Member
So many people are so insecure/dense that when they hear the term 'white privilege' they automatically think it's a reflection/indictment of them because they're white. You can still be white, a good person and acknowledge white privilege exists in this country (duh).

Jon Stewart had a great monologue the other night about the topic and why the Fox News/Stoked/EJ Wells/LogGrad/Gameface crowd need to examine the protests/rioting/looting in Ferguson because of Michael Brown's death in a different perspective. A more open-minded, less woefully ignorant perspective.

Watch here
 

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
So many people are so insecure/dense that when they hear the term 'white privilege' they automatically think it's a reflection/indictment of them because they're white. You can still be white, a good person and acknowledge white privilege exists in this country (duh).

Jon Stewart had a great monologue the other night about the topic and why the Fox News/Stoked/EJ Wells/LogGrad/Gameface crowd need to examine the protests/rioting/looting in Ferguson because of Michael Brown's death in a different perspective. A more open-minded, less woefully ignorant perspective.

Watch here
It is a nice video and I appreciated watching it but I think you are being unfair to the other posters you have mentioned. I have both agreed and disagreed with all of them but I have never found any of them to be unable or unwilling to examine issues from another perspective.

White privilege is a term that confuses the issue. No black person is upset that too few white people are being killed by the police. The term white privilege caries an implication that one groups rights are exercised at the expense of the other. It is not a zero sum game. We can build a better society for black America without taking anything from white America. If you want to talk about the black struggle or systemic discrimination you will find more willing listeners.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
... the Fox News/Stoked/EJ Wells/LogGrad/Gameface ...
LogGrad98 and Gameface have both made posts indicating that they recognize white privilege exists, even if they don't always agree on the extent of it. For EJ Wells, it seems almost a will-o-the-wisp, sought-after yet just out of reach. Stoked seems uninterested in the idea entirely, but I would not equate him to Fox News, which actively supports maintaining white privilege.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
White privilege is a term that confuses the issue. No black person is upset that too few white people are being killed by the police. The term white privilege caries an implication that one groups rights are exercised at the expense of the other. It is not a zero sum game. We can build a better society for black America without taking anything from white America. If you want to talk about the black struggle or systemic discrimination you will find more willing listeners.
I agree that this is true in one sense. However, you also have to the into account that the notion of white privilege interferes with the seemingly innate human desire to believe that we are responsible for our own success. No likes to find out that, after achieving a certain score or the final objective on a video game, that they were sold the easy version by the retailer and cant ever play the hard version. Acknowledging white privilege does take away some of that illusion of self-attainment.
 

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
I agree that this is true in one sense. However, you also have to the into account that the notion of white privilege interferes with the seemingly innate human desire to believe that we are responsible for our own success. No likes to find out that, after achieving a certain score or the final objective on a video game, that they were sold the easy version by the retailer and cant ever play the hard version. Acknowledging white privilege does take away some of that illusion of self-attainment.
Why should white people have to play the hard version of life? I'd rather make the easy version available to more black people.

I don't see how a white doctor believing that he/she earned his/her degree(he/she did) has a negative effect on a black persons life.

The english language needs a full hand of gender neutral pronouns so that I may type a gender neutral post when dealing with socially sensitive subjects.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Why should white people have to play the hard version of life? I'd rather make the easy version available to more black people.
I agree. My point was not about the version they actually play, but the difference from the version they believe they have played.
 

HighlandHomie

Well-Known Member
It is a nice video and I appreciated watching it but I think you are being unfair to the other posters you have mentioned. I have both agreed and disagreed with all of them but I have never found any of them to be unable or unwilling to examine issues from another perspective.

White privilege is a term that confuses the issue. No black person is upset that too few white people are being killed by the police. The term white privilege caries an implication that one groups rights are exercised at the expense of the other. It is not a zero sum game. We can build a better society for black America without taking anything from white America. If you want to talk about the black struggle or systemic discrimination you will find more willing listeners.
I only mentioned them because they were unable to identify that as tragic as Brown's death was, it was not the most pressing issue at hand that needed to be addressed. They were only concerned with defending Darren Wilson's honor as a police officer who deserved the public's patience in letting the facts/info come out when I first started the thread about the shooting. Though the Ferguson PD has laughably only produced lies about the case thus far, the real issue that infuriated me (and many across the country, and world) is what many police forces have become - and why.

The 'why' is what many whites are too uncomfortable to address. I don't blame them for having a subconscious defense mechanism to any notion of racial implications in any event based on the environments they were raised/educated in, just like I cannot blame those who looted stores in Ferguson following a major incident involving the death of a community member at the hands of the PD on the heels of being harassed by that same PD - which has a documented history of deplorable treatment of blacks for many decades. But through honest introspection, experience and practical education one can change their thinking, decision-making and actions.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
What negative effect does that belief have on the life of a black individual?
I would say it has considerable effect, starting with preventing people with privilege from acknowledging it, thereby allowing it to perpetuate.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I absolutely refuse to change my ignorant beliefs that in the end all people should be treated equally no matter who they are or where they are from and the cops should stop shooting people who don't deserve it regardless of their race.
 

BabyPeterzz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I absolutely refuse to change my ignorant beliefs that in the end all people should be treated equally no matter who they are or where they are from and the cops should stop shooting people who don't deserve it regardless of their race.
And I want 1 million dollars.
 

Stoked

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
LogGrad98 and Gameface have both made posts indicating that they recognize white privilege exists, even if they don't always agree on the extent of it. For EJ Wells, it seems almost a will-o-the-wisp, sought-after yet just out of reach. Stoked seems uninterested in the idea entirely, but I would not equate him to Fox News, which actively supports maintaining white privilege.
Complete and utter falsehood.

It obviosuly exists, as I have readily admitted on this very forum. One only has to look at conviction rates for marijuana offenses, college admission rates or average income disaprities (among other areas)...for confirmation.

I am however, unwilling to make "white privilige" an excuse for every crappy action sometakes that might have racial tones. Nor will I feel guilty for being white. I am more interested in solutions (as evidenced by my repeated references to education in regards to this very topic) then justifications/excuses/reasons for why. We all know why.

Complete. Falsehood.

As for the Brown shooting as mentioned by Highland. I focused more on the facts of the case than the racial tones of it. I also stated that I think it is 50/50 that the officer gets convicted but that I think he should be charged.
 

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
I would say it has considerable effect, starting with preventing people with privilege from acknowledging it, thereby allowing it to perpetuate.
How?

When people acknowledge the plight of others they tend to take action in a spirit of solidarity. When people feel they may have something to lose they tend to cling to their privilege. I really feel that this term is a political wedge, not a tool for progress.
 

jimmy eat jazz

Well-Known Member
It is a nice video and I appreciated watching it but I think you are being unfair to the other posters you have mentioned. I have both agreed and disagreed with all of them but I have never found any of them to be unable or unwilling to examine issues from another perspective.

White privilege is a term that confuses the issue. No black person is upset that too few white people are being killed by the police. The term white privilege caries an implication that one groups rights are exercised at the expense of the other. It is not a zero sum game. We can build a better society for black America without taking anything from white America. If you want to talk about the black struggle or systemic discrimination you will find more willing listeners.
But it is a zero sum game--to an extent. Increased social and economic power of one group inherently means diminished social and economic power of other groups. This is precisely why politics is so hotly contested--it is about who has the power to allocate social and economic resources and to which groups. Increased social and economic power among blacks, Hispanics, etc. threatens and disrupts the existing power structure (or some elements of it). They don't like relinquishing this power or control and the ability to dictate how economic and social resources are allocated.

I wish it were as you've portrayed it. But, alas, it is not.
 

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
But it is a zero sum game--to an extent. Increased social and economic power of one group inherently means diminished social and economic power of other groups. This is precisely why politics is so hotly contested--it is about who has the power to allocate social and economic resources and to which groups. Increased social and economic power among blacks, Hispanics, etc. threatens and disrupts the existing power structure (or some elements of it). They don't like relinquishing this power or control and the ability to dictate how economic and social resources are allocated.

I wish it were as you've portrayed it. But, alas, it is not.
Let's break the problem down and see if it is in fact a zero sum game.

I'll start.

This specific issue. If less black people are shot by cops then that does not mean that cops need to start shooting white people to make up the difference. This issue is clearly not zero sum.

Your turn.
 
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