Game Thread Jun 16, 2021 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Clippers - Game 5

[jom2003]

We need to add pieces. We could’ve added Austin rivers or Torrey Craig instead of Matt Thomas and drafted Jaden McDaniels instead of Udoka. Those two right now would’ve made a huge difference.

This guy would’ve made a huge difference when teams tried to go small on us

Everyone knows what the Jazz is lacking except for our own FO. Teams parting ways with their GMs/coaches as their season conclude and we need to do the same.

 

[One Brow]

He's just too limited offensively... I'm not even talking like he needs a jump shot or post moves... I'm talking like when they switch Bev to him he needs to at least be able to seal him and hit a small baby hook like Zubac, Ayton, and other offensively limited centers can.

I didn't watch the second half. In the first half, I saw him do just that at least twice, and no one passed Gobert the ball. Did they start passing him the ball in the second half?

 

[One Brow]

I just don't know if you can say Rudy is the best defender in the world if there are several ways to make his team's defense average or well below average.

Defense has been a team effort for as long as I have been watching the game, and that doesn't change when you have the best defender.

 

[l Abach l]

I'll never understand the FO going all in on older, unathletic players vs. aligning with Donovan's timeline in pairing him with younger, longer, more athletic wings. It makes no ****ing sense. Now we're stuck between a rock and a hard place in that our older players don't have tradeable value.

If DL isn't canned this offseason.... how do you squander away the past 4 seasons after seeing Donovan's rookie year?!

 

[LoPo]

I'll never understand the FO going all in on older, unathletic players vs. aligning with Donovan's timeline in pairing him with younger, longer, more athletic wings. It makes no ****ing sense. Now we're stuck between a rock and a hard place in that our older players don't have tradeable value.

If DL isn't canned this offseason.... how do you squander away the past 4 seasons after seeing Donovan's rookie year?!

Yep. At some point, you have to worry about losing Don. With Rudy, Clarkson, Conley, Bojan, Joe and Royce all 28+, we run a big risk of collapsing into the lottery for a long long time if Don demands out.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I didn't watch the second half. In the first half, I saw him do just that at least twice, and no one passed Gobert the ball. Did they start passing him the ball in the second half?

JC missed him like 3-4 times in the first half. Second half he got some second chance points.

If you didn't watch the second half then you didn't see Rudy's worst moments. Defense is a team thing... yes... but on three plays he got scored on and it was 90% his fault.

-1st he sits in no man's land and gives Batum a wide open three and gives a non-existent close out hand in the air. It was a warm up shot and there wasn't even a drive and kick or something like that... just sitting there not in position to help and not in position to get to his guy and the ball wasn't even on the opposite side of the court.

- He gets iso'd on Reggie Jackson... RJ dances and gets a layup. Rudy was there but couldn't get to the shot... it wasn't tricky it was a straight line drive to his spot and he put it on the square.

- Third play he is spread out... the ball kicks to the corner... he closes hard and gets beat... recovers a bit and gets a hand up... Mann dunks on his face for an And 1. That was the ball game.

You can't get bested by those three guys in those situations if you are the best defender in the world... you just can't. He's a great defender... his limitations can be overcome... but if you are the megamax DPOY and your team desperately needs you then those are plays you have to make.

There is also a key 50/50 ball in there where he has the inside track on an offensive rebound and Batum tips it from behind... these are plays he has to make or we can't build the roster financially around his contract.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yep. At some point, you have to worry about losing Don. With Rudy, Clarkson, Conley, Bojan, Joe and Royce all 28+, we run a big risk of collapsing into the lottery for a long long time if Don demands out.

Not hitting on one of those picks and having one 25 yo-ish guy to pair with him really sucks. Not one guy.

 

[Sean]

Imagine blaming the offense in a game where they scored at a higher rate than the best offense in NBA history does over the course of a season.

Imagine thinking the Jazz shooting 3-21 from three for the second half isn't part of why they lost last night.

 

[MT Steve]

Imagine thinking the Jazz shooting 3-21 from three for the second half isn't part of why they lost last night.

The Jazz have gone through very hot and very cold stretches throughout this series. It has still averaged out to great offense. Not good - great. As in on par with Brooklyn's historically great offense in the regular season.

If there's lower variance and the stretches are more stable (less very hot and less very cold), and the offensive rating is still elite, the end result is the exact same and we still lose.

 

[The Thriller]

I didn't watch the second half. In the first half, I saw him do just that at least twice, and no one passed Gobert the ball. Did they start passing him the ball in the second half?

I saw one time we lobbed it up to him and he dunked it. I too turned the game off early. Most of the time he was wide open underneath the basket and was ignored.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz have gone through very hot and very cold stretches throughout this series. It has still averaged out to great offense. Not good - great. As in on par with Brooklyn's historically great offense in the regular season.

If there's lower variance and the stretches are more stable (less very hot and less very cold), and the offensive rating is still elite, the end result is the exact same and we still lose.

Its not the same net though... nothing is in a vacuum. When teams have to inbound the ball it helps the defense get set and going as well. So the offensive point output might be the same the net effect is different. There is also psychology and other parts to this that cause issues. We are too dependent and reliant on the three last night. As the game gets tighter that variance tends to widen because threes are more difficult than other opportunities. there is a game flow aspect to this that goes beyond just looking at offensive rating imo.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Good illustration of how little help Gobert gets from his teammates on D. Why is no one prepared to bring any help? Terreance Mann and Pat beverly are on the court.

 

[MT Steve]

Its not the same net though... nothing is in a vacuum. When teams have to inbound the ball it helps the defense get set and going as well. So the offensive point output might be the same the net effect is different.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible point if we're talking about this series specifically. The Clippers only had 9 fastbreak points last night. These are very slow-paced games. Both teams are using a lot of shot clock, and our half-court defense is getting destroyed.

There is also psychology and other parts to this that cause issues. We are too dependent and reliant on the three last night. As the game gets tighter that variance tends to widen because threes are more difficult than other opportunities. there is a game flow aspect to this that goes beyond just looking at offensive rating imo.

The Jazz have dominated crunch time in this series...

Like, what are we doing here? If the defense is giving up a putrid 127 points per 100 possessions in the series, why are people trying to blame the elite offense for not belng elite enough?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Anyone blaming Gobert is utterly pathetic. The bulk of the Clippers damage was done attacking PNR not involving Gobert.

Cherry pick a few plays where he gets beat when there are about 10000 other instances of the others doing absolutely nothing on defense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible point if we're talking about this series specifically. The Clippers only had 9 fastbreak points last night. These are very slow-paced games. Both teams are using a lot of shot clock, and our half-court defense is getting destroyed.


The Jazz have dominated crunch time in this series...

Like, what are we doing here? If the defense is giving up a putrid 127 points per 100 possessions in the series, why are people trying to blame the elite offense for not belng elite enough?

It isn’t just fast break... it’s having time to find your man and not be switched on to the wrong guy.

How much “crunch” time has there really been. They deep dicked us in LA... we caught them in game one coming off a 7 game series and shot the **** out of the ball in game 2 it was an outlier performance. Did we dominate crunch time last night? If we are dominating crunch time how come we down 3-2.

The defense is the much bigger problem but the offense wasn’t an unstoppable juggernaut last night.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Anyone blaming Gobert is utterly pathetic. The bulk of the Clippers damage was done attacking PNR not involving Gobert.

Cherry pick a few plays where he gets beat when there are about 10000 other instances of the others doing absolutely nothing on defense.

Picking three really obvious plays in the most important part of the game is really fair... please point out the three defensive plays he made last night that made a difference for us?

He gets his share of the blame pie... sorry. Injuries get the biggest part of the blame pie but Rudy gets some too.

 

[LoPo]

Anyone blaming Gobert is utterly pathetic. The bulk of the Clippers damage was done attacking PNR not involving Gobert.

Cherry pick a few plays where he gets beat when there are about 10000 other instances of the others doing absolutely nothing on defense.

I don't think anybody is blaming Rudy for the loss.

I think they are simply pointing out that he is extremely overrated by a ton of people around here. Also pointing out that he is often a liability on offense AND defense.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Elizah Huge]

Good illustration of how little help Gobert gets from his teammates on D. Why is no one prepared to bring any help? Terreance Mann and Pat beverly are on the court.

Rudy isn’t a good perimeter defender and they will continue to go after him 1v1. This is why small ball can play him off of the court.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Picking three really obvious plays in the most important part of the game is really fair... please point out the three defensive plays he made last night that made a difference for us?

He gets his share of the blame pie... sorry. Injuries get the biggest part of the blame pie but Rudy gets some too.

You've gone off the deep end my friend and have joined the likes of Lopo. Hopefully you return to sanity once the pain wears off.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The Clippers were literally trying to get Rudy to switch onto their guards so they could go after him. If that isn’t a liability I don’t know what is. Wake the **** up.