Kanter and Nike Hoop Summit History

[colton]

Good question. I will compare the Athletic Testing Composite Ranking with two other big men we're considering.

Kanter ranked 34th, Chris Singleton ranked 15th and Derrick Williams ranked 17th.

How can you consider Singleton and Williams to be big men?? Williams MAY be able to play PF, but has said he wants to play SF. And with a standing reach of only 8' 7.5", I don't think Singleton has a prayer at playing PF. And clearly neither can play center, which Kanter almost certainly will be able to do.

 

[BENTLEY]

How can you consider Singleton and Williams to be big men?? Williams MAY be able to play PF, but has said he wants to play SF. And with a standing reach of only 8' 7.5", I don't think Singleton has a prayer at playing PF. And clearly neither can play center, which Kanter almost certainly will be able to do.

This. Kanter plays a more premium position.

 

[colton]

By the way, I am by no means a Kanter homer. I have no idea how he will be in the NBA. If the Jazz draft him I hope they first obtain a lot more info on him than I have seen. I only entered into this discussion due to the questionable logic employed by the anti-Kanter camp.

Edit: And I'm also on the record as having said that Williams would be my dream pick in the draft.

 

[Borat]

Do you think anyone is going to draft him without running him through their own workout?

They might if he starts falling. People will still take a chance even if they didn't see him go one on one against empty basket.

 

[BENTLEY]

Well, if Knight becomes Deron or Paul caliber, we are certainly going to regret not taking him. I just feel, based on the players resumes, that chances of Knight being top PG, like Deron, are a lot greater than Kanter becoming someone like Kevin Love.

Ok, here it is. You're hoping Knight becomes Deron. I don't see it. I think it's a lot of hope. That's why we have a difference of opinion. I think Kanter has a better chance of being Kevin Love than Knight has of being Deron.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ok, here it is. You're hoping Knight becomes Deron. I don't see it. I think it's a lot of hope. That's why we have a difference of opinion. I think Kanter has a better chance of being Kevin Love than Knight has of being Deron.

Well put.

 

[Borat]

By the way, I am by no means a Kanter homer. I have no idea how he will be in the NBA. If the Jazz draft him I hope they first obtain a lot more info on him than I have seen. I only entered into this discussion due to the questionable logic employed by the anti-Kanter camp.

Edit: And I'm also on the record as having said that Williams would be my dream pick in the draft.

There is no anti-Kanter camp. To say the guy has little on his resume for such high pick is unbiased assessment, and conclusion about NHS game telling us next to nothing when it comes to NBA prospects is logically sound based on evidence. Your participation in this thread is puzzling, considering you seem to feel Kanter is too risky of a choice yourself. Is that so? Williams is obvious choice for us, and I also would pick him. But if he and Irving are gone, as expected, who would you go "on the record" as your pick?

 

[vslice02]

This. Kanter plays a more premium position.

-I think Kanter is a big PF who may be able to play center effectively some of the time but not all of it.
-Don't think Knight will reach a top-5 PG level, but also don't think that's an indictment on him.
-Singleton's definitely a wing but someone who could probably guard some 4's in certain situation - definitely not a fulltime PF though.
-Williams can definitely play PF - since that's what we saw him play at Arizona - and attribute the SF talk to him looking to improve his draft stock and show he can expand his game. He has all the tools to be a dynamic PF, and if he can make the transition to SF he's a grand slam pick.

 

[Borat]

Ok, here it is. You're hoping Knight becomes Deron. I don't see it. I think it's a lot of hope. That's why we have a difference of opinion. I think Kanter has a better chance of being Kevin Love than Knight has of being Deron.

I used Deron as an example of a top PG. Obviously if we pick Knight, I would hope he would become a top guy, and I think he has a chance to be one, based on his resume. I just don't see how Kanter's lack of resume gives you a better feeling of becoming Love? Why not Koufos?

 

[colton]

Williams is obvious choice for us, and I also would pick him. But if he and Irving are gone, as expected, who would you go "on the record" as your pick?

It would depend on a LOT more data to which the Jazz likely have access but to which I do not. For example, there is the private workout he did with the Jazz FO, there are the results of the combine (the other stuff, not just the physical measurements), there is likely footage from Kanter's games in Europe (or if not footage, then conversations with people who saw the games first hand), there are likely conversations with people who saw Kanter practice with the Kentucky team, perhaps conversations with other NBA teams who have worked out Kanter, and so forth.

If after all that the Jazz decide to pick Kanter at #3, I would be thoroughly on the bandwagon, at least for the time being.

If after all that the Jazz decide they like Knight most, then I am thoroughly in the camp that hopes the Jazz trade down a couple of picks to do so since Knight will likely last until 5 or 6, and acquire some additional assets in the process.

And of course, the Jazz could well decide they like someone else at #3.

 

[BENTLEY]

I used Deron as an example of a top PG. Obviously if we pick Knight, I would hope he would become a top guy, and I think he has a chance to be one, based on his resume. I just don't see how Kanter's lack of resume gives you a better feeling of becoming Love? Why not Koufos?

Koufos is the best argument against Kanter. I'm still smarting from the underwhelming performance of Kouf, so this makes me hesitant on Kanter. Their U18 numbers are really similar. Kanter significantly bests Kouf in rebounding though. I must admit I was surprised Kouf was as underwhelming as he was, but I don't want the bad taste in my mouth left by Kouf to cloud my judgement of Kanter. It is worth consideration though. Kanter has 15 lbs on Kouf, but is an inch shorter. Dunno about standing reach, but Kouf certainly didn't play big, nickname notwithstanding.

Yeah, it would suck to draft Boombitches 2.0. If they go with Kanter I hope the FO checks the tires with a magnifying glass before driving him off the lot.

Still, taking a PG that high they better be awesome now - not fingers crossed for the future. Without such a player it's better to risk busting on a premium position. What are you out? Not much - just a pretty PG. I don't think Knight will be elite.

 

[Borat]

It would depend on a LOT more data to which the Jazz likely have access but to which I do not. For example, there is the private workout he did with the Jazz FO, there are the results of the combine (the other stuff, not just the physical measurements), there is likely footage from Kanter's games in Europe (or if not footage, then conversations with people who saw the games first hand), there are likely conversations with people who saw Kanter practice with the Kentucky team, perhaps conversations with other NBA teams who have worked out Kanter, and so forth.

If after all that the Jazz decide to pick Kanter at #3, I would be thoroughly on the bandwagon, at least for the time being.

If after all that the Jazz decide they like Knight most, then I am thoroughly in the camp that hopes the Jazz trade down a couple of picks to do so since Knight will likely last until 5 or 6, and acquire some additional assets in the process.

And of course, the Jazz could well decide they like someone else at #3.

Neither of us has complete info on any player. But we are also not going to make an actual selection either. It's all hypothetical anyway. So, the question still remains, based on everything YOU know, who is your pick at #3?

 

[Borat]

Koufos is the best argument against Kanter. I'm still smarting from the underwhelming performance of Kouf, so this makes me hesitant on Kanter. Their U18 numbers are really similar. Kanter significantly bests Kouf in rebounding though. I must admit I was surprised Kouf was as underwhelming as he was, but I don't want the bad taste in my mouth left by Kouf to cloud my judgement of Kanter. It is worth consideration though. Kanter has 15 lbs on Kouf, but is an inch shorter. Dunno about standing reach, but Kouf certainly didn't play big, nickname notwithstanding.

Yeah, it would suck to draft Boombitches 2.0. If they go with Kanter I hope the FO checks the tires with a magnifying glass before driving him off the lot.

I understand jazz have access to a lot more info than we do, but without actual games, even they can't get all that much. That's why you have lots of failures, like Darko, Skita, and Podz. These guys never did well on senior level, but had great reviews, and teams got burned. There is NOTHING that can substitute for actual competitive games. Even for NBA scouts. So, Koufos is real, very real here. Gasol, Dirk, Peja, even AK had solid senior Euro pedigree before coming to US.

Still, taking a PG that high they better be awesome now - not fingers crossed for the future. Without such a player it's better to risk busting on a premium position. What are you out? Not much - just a pretty PG. I don't think Knight will be elite.

Well, a pretty PG is the reason why we have this pick in the first place. Plus a talented big man picked 3d overall last year. Plus a pick next year, and a 3 mil to boot. He is also the reason why we went to Conf finals a few years back. Not to mention we had another PG who did pretty well for us for about 20 years. And a PG being MVP this year, and another one being MVP for 2 years in a row not too long back. Will the Knight be elite? He is certainly in good company as far as leading teams to final 4 as freshman. Kanter's best company looks like Koufos at this point.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Koufos is the best argument against Kanter. I'm still smarting from the underwhelming performance of Kouf, so this makes me hesitant on Kanter. Their U18 numbers are really similar. Kanter significantly bests Kouf in rebounding though. I must admit I was surprised Kouf was as underwhelming as he was, but I don't want the bad taste in my mouth left by Kouf to cloud my judgement of Kanter. It is worth consideration though. Kanter has 15 lbs on Kouf, but is an inch shorter. Dunno about standing reach, but Kouf certainly didn't play big, nickname notwithstanding.

Yeah, it would suck to draft Boombitches 2.0. If they go with Kanter I hope the FO checks the tires with a magnifying glass before driving him off the lot.

Still, taking a PG that high they better be awesome now - not fingers crossed for the future. Without such a player it's better to risk busting on a premium position. What are you out? Not much - just a pretty PG. I don't think Knight will be elite.

I think BB IQ comes into play here as well. Kanter has very good (understatement) bb smarts.

 

[Shad]

Let's not forget we lost a coach that probably made ordinary, garbage players look good.

 

[jazzrule]

The "high ceiling" and "great resume" players you're advocating are Irving, Williams, and Knight, correct? What Kanter lacks in resume accolades (since you devalue the ones he has) he makes up for in size. Size is a premium and you rarely find it outside of the lottery.

I'm not saying to blindly pick size over a guy who made it to the final 4, but be sure and evaluate every aspect of the prospect before deciding to pass on him (your questioning the value of a good NHS performance is exactly the kind of discriminating research I hope the FO is doing on Kanter, on Biyombo, on every prospect). But I think it's folly to totally disregard it. Passing on Kanter might end up REALLY HURTING. Passing on Knight? -- I don't think so. He's gonna be a good player, sure, but I continue to be perplexed by the inflated love of him. The only way I can make sense of it is the void left by Deron makes some inflate this year's best replacement. Since I wasn't overly impressed with Knight's running of the Kentucky offense in the tourney I prefer to wait for something better or at least something that won't cost a 3rd pick. JMO.

Dear perplexed,

Forget comparing him to DWill. Lets compare him with Derrick Rose. Check this out:

Derrick Rose, MVP of the NBA this year, combine stats were:

Age Height Weight Wing Span Reach Body Fat No Step Vert. Max Vert. Bench Press Lane Agility Sprint
22 ? 6' 2 1/2 in. 196 6' 8 in. 8' 2 1/2in 4.6 34.5 40 in. 10 11.69 3.05

Brandon Knight combine stats are:

Age Height Weight Wing Span Reach Body Fat No Step Vert. Max Vert. Bench Press Lane Agility Sprint
19 ? 6' 3 1/4 in. 177 6' 6 3/4 in. 8' 2 1/2in 4.2 29.0 37.5 10 10.74 3.07
Brandon is taller, younger, has less body fat, has the same standing reach, bench presses the same, is faster in the Lane Agility Drill and is almost as blazing fast in the sprint as Rose was at his combine. Brandon Knight also holds the Kentucky freshman record for most 20 plus points game in a season. His ability to shoot it from deep is what separates him from John Wall. Now get off my boy Knight.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Good post. I suppose the counter would be that Rose seems to have more explosiveness and jump-out-of-the-gymability. Knight is a smart, smart, smart kid with the tools necessary to be special.

 

[jazzrule]

What no rep? lol

 

[Revolution 9]

Let's not forget we lost a coach that probably made ordinary, garbage players look good.

Ahem, like Kouf, Fess, and Palmer?

 

[vslice02]

Let's not forget we lost a coach that probably made ordinary, garbage players look good.

Ahem, like Kouf, Fess, and Palmer?

Like Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, John Crotty, Ben Handlogten, Calbert Cheaney, Ronnie Brewer, Mikki Moore, Matt Harpring....