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Kevin Durant - Racist Remarks on Hayward....surprised...

It has to work both ways. If we arent going to let a white person say this comment in reverse. What Durrant said was stupid, and racist.

I have a lot of respect for Kevin. He seems like one of the nicer superstars. This comment is disappointing though. He should apologize.
 
This thread is out of control.. I'd never read thru this.

Durant doesn't give a ****, That's his new M.O. He's also a viscous trash talker, who can back it up.

He obviously got into Haywards head at the end of that game, so he continued on in the lockerroom.


Between this and the trade rumors seems like JAzzfanz attention has been temporarily diverted away from the fledgling team and its short-term issues.
 
It has to work both ways. If we arent going to let a white person say this comment in reverse. What Durrant said was stupid, and racist.

I have a lot of respect for Kevin. He seems like one of the nicer superstars. This comment is disappointing though. He should apologize.

The fact of the matter is when your a white guy on a basketball court, this is the type of **** that gets said all the time, especially if your good. I've got more than a few funny stories from my pickup games in the NYC area.. I could really handle the rock too(still can, just not as sharply), and a younger me would go to the projects looking for a good game I've got lots of and-1 dribbling moves and I can shoot from 3, so I can get on the court at most runs -- I've had locals stop pickup games and try to play me 1v1 -- plus all sorts of absurtites.

If you just say things like 'And-1' when you get fouled and make the basket, some perceive that at trash talking and quick;y move on to racial comments.

It's just trash-talk, it's not really all that racist because its a form of gamesmanship, Kevin Durant is a smart guy, he's not a racist..

The only way to properly deal with it, is to shut them up thru your play -- Hayward choked, so Durant kept talking after the game. Who knows what else was said, If Hayward was yapping that game and then choked out like that, Like KD I'd have thought to leave with a parting shot in the media too. Something to remember for the next matchup -- This is a division rival were talking about
 
Against my better judgment of not getting involved here:

(In my view) there's a number of principles that should be taken into account in situations involving racial/cultural stereotyping (which this very clearly is). To automatically prioritize one over the others is foolish. We need to take into account as much as much of the context as we can obtain and weigh the principles against the particular situation. There may be additional relevant principles, but here's some key ones:

1. Stereotyping of any kind can be a problem, even if it seems positive on the face of it. Because:

1a. It's lazy thinking. If it becomes a habit it becomes harder for the speaker to have real relationships with those who are stereotyped.

1b. Stereotypes often come in pairs or groups. "Such and such a race is good at x, but not so good at y or z." The speaker often doesn't need to refer directly to the negative aspect for the listener to think of it since the grouping is often deeply embedded in culture/history.

1c. If believed (by either speaker or listener), stereotypes generally work over the long run to limit options and opportunities for those who are stereotyped: "I am/we are/they are capable of x, but not y."


2. Not all stereotyping is created equal. While I'd claim that virtually all stereotyping creates problems, some of these problems are far worse than others.

2a. Stereotyping by those who belong to powerful groups usually produces far more damage than stereotyping by those who belong to less powerful groups. (And inability to see or be sensitive to the fact that one is in a powerful group is a particular problem.)

2b. History and socio-economic factors are highly relevant in deciding whether someone is part of a powerful group or a less powerful group. The US racial history that worked very much to the advantage of some "races" over others cannot be overlooked.

2c. As important as historical and socio-economic context is, the relevant context in any particular situation is more than just that single issue. Those who can claim less power in relation to another group in one situation might not be able to claim it in another. (If you can't see this through looking at life in Utah, I don't know how you'll ever see it.)

2d. Some topics of stereotyping are far more damaging than others. Those related to intelligence are among those particularly so (along with propensity to violence and a few others), since they specifically involve the capacity to earn a livelihood. Where stereotyping doesn't involve intelligence, but still touches on the capacity to earn a living, it may still be dangerous.

2e. The personal context is always important. Backhanded compliments, social bonding, or light-hearted "turning the tables" on someone from a more powerful group often occur through stereotyping. This doesn't eliminate the problems involved with stereotyping (particularly when the message gets broadcast beyond the personal relationship), but it can be an ameliorating factor.


3. "Racism" is a powerful and contested term. In our society, "racism" seems quite a bit worse than such terms as "stereotyping" or "racial thinking." While some people try to control its meaning based on issues such as power and history (and for at least partially good reasons in my view--since power and history add great potential for damage), nobody has a patent on the term. "Racism" typically conveys a powerful value judgment of the worst race-related thoughts and actions, but as a society we continue to struggle over where the boundary into it lies. To be able to call something "racist" confers great potential rhetorical power, which is why we continue to argue about the use/misuse of the term. (It's much like the term "cult." Sociologists may have a specialized "objective" definition for it, but as long as society continues to give it meaning involving value judgments far beyond that specialized definition, we're not going to have much success pointing to the "real" meaning of racism.)
Your construct allows you to define tame comments by a white guy, even if the listener has to connect non-existent dots between the actual words and some negative conclusion, as racism. Meanwhile, the member of another race can say something many times as offensive toward a white person and it's perfectly fine. Racism is an unsolvable problem in a world like that.
 
You broke the number one rule of offense. You never get to say what is or isn't offensive to someone else. Ever.

Since you believe it is not okay to say what is offensive to someone else, you must be okay with me being offended.
 
Maybe it is. I don't know. I think using my definition of racism as being prejudice + power properly conveys the difference between a black person saying prejudiced things, and a white person saying prejudiced things. It simply is different, and using the word racism for both situations really ignores the whole context of power and the impact it has in both situations. That's why I look to define racism the way I do. I suppose you can still use 'racism' for both situations, but then it would lead one to believe that black people saying prejudiced things = white people saying prejudiced things. To me, I don't find this particularly true. But again, that's just my opinion.

The problem is, by embracing the left's intelligentsia's perspective wholesale, you've also embraced their brand of racism. Their perspective is little different than that of their counterpart on the right. Only the target is different. So instead of rejecting racism, you instead became racist, then redefined yourself out of it. In your head, it is not racism because it is justified. That is exactly how the right thinks. They hate Islam because it is inherently violent. They are not against any race, only against certain cultures because of their actions.

Similarly, you've made your own justifications. Racism is not about prejudice, it is about prejudice with the power to do something about it. But what is power? You're using it as a synonym for "being white". Durant cannot have power, despite being a multimillionaire celebrity. Why? Certainly not because he has no power in the relevant context . It is because you've defined power as "being white". No black person can have power, despite their actual objective level of power, because they are not white, and thus not subject to your brand of prejudice. In fact, even the current most powerful person in the US, and probably the world, is powerless in your definition, because he's black.

Power is complicated. I lived in the ghettos of Richmond, Virginia, in an area that tops 50 annual murder per 100000. Those people had no power in larger society. Police is reluctant to respond to calls in the area, businesses won't open shop there, and the residents are stuck in a cycle that makes it near impossible to ever improve their situation. The residents are also very racist against non-blacks (which is due to their situation. Everything has a reason, obviously). A Hispanic woman walking through that neighborhood at night would be in real danger, and she would have no power. The leftist abstracting of the problem serves to distance yourself from the fact that all issues are individual that affect individuals. It does this while pretending to be all about lifting the individual. A white person suffering due to race is as important as a black person suffering the same thing. This isn't a game of numbers, and power is a fickle thing when the individual is so fragile.

And that is my issue with the leftist perspective; by proudly embracing racism (as long as it is not by whites, because apparently white people deserve it), they ensure its survival. It is not about excusing racism in a disadvantaged individual. It is about labeling entire segments of society as "advantaged" and "disadvantaged" regardless of the circumstances of the individual. But things change. And when those things change, and blacks/whoever are no longer on average disadvantaged, and someone else is, we know one thing for sure, racism will have survived. And why wouldn't it? Both sides embrace it and encourage it, only choosing different targets. And it is sad, because as you well know, race itself is basically a meaningless designation.

One more thought that I want to get through; white people are not special. Everything they'd done has been done by everyone else. You call what Europeans did colonialism? Hah! Arabs invaded half of the known world, completely erased the cultures and history of the invaded, and slapped the word "Arab" on them. There are half a billion Arabs now, out which not even a tenth are actual ethnic Arabs. And I have yet to see anyone on the left cry about Arab colonizing horribleness and justify racism against them. Sure what Europeans did happened at a more recent time with better technology that furthered their reach, but it was neither unique nor exceptional.

There is much MUCH more to talk about regarding this issue. The foolishness of transmitting guilt through genetic lines. The disaster of insisting mainstream American culture is "white culture". The left's evolution into an anti-success ideology that has become hostile to anything successful from Western culture, to civilization in general, to capitalism, to even being human. And a lot more. But I do need to go back to work.
 
I dont even know where to begin with disagreeing with this but not really something I want to discuss in the Jazz section or at all since it is probably useless. Either way this should be moved to the General thread if people want to discuss this.

Okay, great. Thanks for letting us know.
 
Okay, great. Thanks for letting us know.

Wish I felt the same after reading your essay in the Jazz section on your views of racism. Maybe ill reread it when it gets moved to the general thread to get gems about how its an indvidual issue and how you have generalized it into a "left" and "right" views on it when it gets moved over.
 
Wish I felt the same after reading your essay in the Jazz section on your views of racism. Maybe ill reread it when it gets moved to the general thread to get gems about how its an indvidual issue and how you have generalized it into a "left" and "right" views on it when it gets moved over.

You're gonna keep crying about the thread being in the Jazz section? ROFL. It was where it was when I found it. But no, I will look forward to your insights. Given the history of your contributions, I am sure they will be incredible.
 
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