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Keyonte George’s Star Ascension

I don’t think Keyonte is nearly as bad on defense as some of you say. I see a guy who takes on the hardest matchup every night. Sure, he’s not a plus defender or likely even neutral but he’s nowhere near the worst defender in the league or even the bottom-25 to me. He makes multiple great defensive plays per game and seems to rise to the occasion in the clutch on defense as well.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hayward was a legit good defender with or without Gobert
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Not trying to tear him down but there was a dj & pk after Hayward had left that Locke basically admits it was a jazz pr thing and that his numbers were strongly influenced by having Gobert behind him. My source is “trust me bro” as I can’t find the audio now. But I think it’s easier to admit those things after your guy leaves and there was some selfish motivation in that Locke was gassing Gobert.
 
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rippimpc said:
Not trying to tear him down but there was a dj & pk after Hayward had left that Locke basically admits it was a jazz pr thing and that his numbers were strongly influenced by having Gobert behind him. My source is “trust me bro” as I can’t find the audio now. But I think it’s easier to admit those things after your guy leaves and there was some selfish motivation in that Locke was gassing Gobert.
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MAybe they PRd him and talked it up, but either way he was good at defense
 
rippimpc said:
Can the opposite also be true when you have nurk and love holding down the fort???
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No.

This team generally sucks at defense, but when Keyonte is on the court, it sucks a lot more. You cannot get around that. His individual defensive impact on the Jazz is overwhelmingly negative.

I have no idea why people are fighting the facts. This isn't some slight difference of opinion.

Find any type of analytics, any metric that measures defensive impact among current NBA rotation players, and you will always find Keyonte at the bottom of the barrel. I wish I was joking.

On the whole, the entire Jazz backcourt is a disaster on D and cannot stop anyone. The fact that Hardy's schemes aren't exactly geared towards clamping down on perimeter shooters doesn't mean that the players are absolved of all defensive responsibility.

We can win when the opponent has a terrible shooting night, Lauri & Key get to their averages and someone else has a good scoring game. That's basically it.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
No.

This team generally sucks at defense, but when Keyonte is on the court, it sucks a lot more. You cannot get around that. His individual defensive impact on the Jazz is overwhelmingly negative.

I have no idea why people are fighting the facts. This isn't some slight difference of opinion.

Find any type of analytics, any metric that measures defensive impact among current rotation players, and you will always find Keyonte at the bottom of the barrel. I wish I was joking.

On the whole, the entire Jazz backcourt is a disaster on D and cannot stop anyone. The fact that Hardy's schemes aren't exactly geared towards clamping down on perimeter shooters doesn't mean that the players are absolved of all defensive responsibility.

We can win when the opponent has a terrible shooting night, Lauri & Key get to their averages and someone else has a good scoring game. That's basically it.
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still laughing about your "Estimated" versus "Actual" mistake, the way you doubled down on it, and your lack of acknowledging your error.
 
jazznik said:
Here are the third year stats:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 22.9 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.0 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 44% - 34% - 91% shooting.

And Mitchell's stats declined after the hot start, while Keyonte keeps improving his PPG, RPG and shooting percentages every month.

They're the same picture. Their stats would be very, very similar after the end of the season.
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Updated:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 24.2 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.2 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 90% shooting.

Their stats are absolutely identical with one exception: Keyonte has way more assists.
 
jazznik said:
Updated:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 24.2 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.2 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 90% shooting.

Their stats are absolutely identical with one exception: Keyonte has way more assists.
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The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated worse than Key defensively.

FWIW I do see that both Simons and Sexton (-0.71) have improved defensively being on different teams this season so it's very possible some of the ratings can be attributed to just playing on a lousy Jazz defensive team.
 
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HeatCheck said:
The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated lower than Key defensively.

FWIW I do see that both Simons and Sexton (-0.71) have improved defensively being on different teams this season so it's very possible some of the ratings can be attributed to just playing on a lousy Jazz defensive team.
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Yeah, Don made more effort after leaving the Jazz. Kinda pisses me off tbh.
 
HeatCheck said:
The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated lower than Key defensively.
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Is it one of those statistics that are heavily dependent on the team performance, like DRTG? Because in that case all players on a bad defensive team will be bad and all players on a good defensive team will be at the top of the rankings.

Also, I was comparing the third-year stats of Mitchell and Keyonte and not their 25/26 stats. Mitchell has been pretty bad defensively in his third year.
 
jazznik said:
Is it one of those statistics that are heavily dependent on the team performance, like DRTG? Because in that case all players on a bad defensive team will be bad and all players on a good defensive team will be at the top of the rankings.
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LEBRON evaluates a player’s contributions using the box score and advanced on/off calculations for evaluation of player impact per 100 possessions on-court.

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