Hotdog

Well-Known Member
It was far better and kinder than your post and your petulance deserve.
Lol

Wtf is this? Did you turn over a new leaf on new years? Kinder? I didnt even know that was in your vocabulary. But whatever. Good on you.

Hey, you know what everyone. If Numberica can change then I can change. Maybe we all can change.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Lol

Wtf is this? Did you turn over a new leaf on new years? Kinder? I didnt even know that was in your vocabulary. But whatever. Good on you.

Hey, you know what everyone. If Numberica can change then I can change. Maybe we all can change.
ok
 

Lakers_Slapper

Well-Known Member
Important point: there are two teams on the table, so...did the Cavs want someone else besides Burks?
That question you ask is why I say that DL's negotiation skills suck. Listen up,
Korver is great for the Jazz and our system, it makes sense for us to have inquired about him with the Cavs.
There were many teams going after Korver after he requested a trade to the Cavs management.
The Jazz were not the only team to send the Cavs a trade proposition to acquire Korver.
The Jazz outbid the other teams, because instead of negotiating, they gave up far more than what any other team offered.
Negotiation definition: "Bargaining (give and take) process between two or more parties (each with its own aims, needs, and viewpoints) seeking to discover a common ground and reach an agreement to settle a matter of mutual concern or resolve a conflict."
My argument is, I know that we could've acquired Korver to the Jazz, giving up less assets, with stronger negotiating skills. It's not that we gave up Burks to get him, it's that we gave up not one, but two 2nd round picks to get Korver who is 37 years old. I have no doubt that he will be a solid player for the next 2 years, but two 2nd rounders and a guy who's a talented 27 year old, for Korver is crazy. Of course the Cavs agreed.
2nd rounders are valuable and they are there for negotiations, but not with guys that could retire any day, no matter how talented they are.
 

gomretat

Well-Known Member
That question you ask is why I say that DL's negotiation skills suck. Listen up,
Korver is great for the Jazz and our system, it makes sense for us to have inquired about him with the Cavs.
There were many teams going after Korver after he requested a trade to the Cavs management.
The Jazz were not the only team to send the Cavs a trade proposition to acquire Korver.
The Jazz outbid the other teams, because instead of negotiating, they gave up far more than what any other team offered.
Negotiation definition: "Bargaining (give and take) process between two or more parties (each with its own aims, needs, and viewpoints) seeking to discover a common ground and reach an agreement to settle a matter of mutual concern or resolve a conflict."
My argument is, I know that we could've acquired Korver to the Jazz, giving up less assets, with stronger negotiating skills. It's not that we gave up Burks to get him, it's that we gave up not one, but two 2nd round picks to get Korver who is 37 years old. I have no doubt that he will be a solid player for the next 2 years, but two 2nd rounders and a guy who's a talented 27 year old, for Korver is crazy. Of course the Cavs agreed.
2nd rounders are valuable and they are there for negotiations, but not with guys that could retire any day, no matter how talented they are.
The only way you could know that much detail with any accuracy is if you worked for the Jazz FO or the Cavs FO. I "listened up" and still not buying. And for what it's worth, every trade that goes down goes the high bidder. Pretty simple concept. It even works on eBay.
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
That question you ask is why I say that DL's negotiation skills suck. Listen up,
Korver is great for the Jazz and our system, it makes sense for us to have inquired about him with the Cavs.
There were many teams going after Korver after he requested a trade to the Cavs management.
The Jazz were not the only team to send the Cavs a trade proposition to acquire Korver.
The Jazz outbid the other teams, because instead of negotiating, they gave up far more than what any other team offered.
Negotiation definition: "Bargaining (give and take) process between two or more parties (each with its own aims, needs, and viewpoints) seeking to discover a common ground and reach an agreement to settle a matter of mutual concern or resolve a conflict."
My argument is, I know that we could've acquired Korver to the Jazz, giving up less assets, with stronger negotiating skills. It's not that we gave up Burks to get him, it's that we gave up not one, but two 2nd round picks to get Korver who is 37 years old. I have no doubt that he will be a solid player for the next 2 years, but two 2nd rounders and a guy who's a talented 27 year old, for Korver is crazy. Of course the Cavs agreed.
2nd rounders are valuable and they are there for negotiations, but not with guys that could retire any day, no matter how talented they are.
1. I didn't ask that question. Agree with how great Korver is.
2. Lol at the negotiation definition. I'm quite certain most people is aware of what negotiation means. And if you take Larry Susskind's definition (who happened to be my professor at MIT and whose definition is far more complete), it's not only about creating common ground, but to create more value for both and stable outcomes (which in my opinion is quite important in a league where reputation and personal relationships between GMs are quite important for dealing - you don't want to become the next Ainge, Hinkie or @LoPo ...love ya Lopo).
3. How can you possibly know that "we could've acquired Korver to the Jazz, giving up less assets"? Are you aware of all the offers the Cavs received? What the conversations were?. Korver gave the Cavs a list of preferred destinations. What if the Cavs had better offers (better prospects, picks) but decided to send Korver to the Jazz as a way for Altman (new GM) to create goodwill and a good image for others to see (GMs, player agents, free agents). Unlikely but possible.
4. All in all, your assessment of DL negotiation's skills is based on speculation. We will never know if the Jazz outbid others teams by a wide margin or any whatsoever, as I said in my previous point. Given equal offers, the Cavs maybe decided to deal with us. We can only judge the outcome of a trade, not the process. For that we need information we will never have.
 
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LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
1. I didn't ask that question. Agree with how great Korver is.
2. Lol at the negotiation definition. I'm quite certain most people is aware of what negotiation means. And if you take Larry Susskind's definition (who happened to be my professor at MIT and whose definition is far more complete), it's not only about creating common ground, but to create more value for both and stable outcomes (which in my opinion is quite important in a league where reputation and personal relationships between GMs are quite important for dealing - you don't want to become the next Ainge, Hinkie or @LoPo ...love ya Lopo).
3. How can you possibly know that "we could've acquired Korver to the Jazz, giving up less assets"? Are you aware of all the offers the Cavs received? What the conversations were?. Korver gave the Cavs a list of preferred destinations. What if the Cavs had better offers (better prospects, picks) but decided to send Korver to the Jazz as a way for Altman (new GM) to create goodwill and a good image for others to see (GMs, player agents, free agents). Unlikely but possible.
4. All in all, your assessment of DL negotiation's skills is based on speculation. We will never know if the Jazz outbid others teams by a wide margin or any whatsoever, as I said in my previous point. Given equal offers, the Cavs maybe decided to deal with us. We can only judge the outcome of a trade, not the process. For that we need information we will never have.
I am probably wrong but I read all this as people believe we simply paid too much regardless of how the negotiations went. Yeah we won the bid but it is possible to win the bid by a narrow margin and still pay too much. I personally think the trade was good and benefited both teams. Love having Korver here.
 
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