Kyrie to Utah?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Why isn't he a "winner" though? iirc he showed up big time in some nba finals games and won a championship.

How do you define a winner? Would you not want cp3 cause he isn't a winner and can't get to the finals? Would you not want Anthony Davis cause he isn't a winner and can't make the playoffs? Paul pierce wasn't a winner until ray Allen and garnett showed up right. Those two (garnett and allen) weren't winners until they joined Paul pierce.

He is statically one of the worst defenders ever. He is a player that relies on over dribbling to take tough contested shots, which stalls out the offense.

He is a perfect player next to Lebron because Lebron can carry him to the Finals then Lebron can hope that high variance of Kyrie's possible performances trends up for a series where they are outmatched talent wise.

If you are night in and night out relying on Irving to carry you, the variance in his outcomes is too inconsistent as a first option, especially since he is a huge negative on defense and doesnt move the ball enough to make anyone else better on offense.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not in the west. Talk to Lillard DWill and Melo about that. Leonard, who is 10 times better then Lillard is only a 2 time all star and he's 26.

Exactly. It would be awesome, imo, of mitchell was a 4 time all star by the age of 25. That would mean he was pretty good I reckon.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Exactly. It would be awesome, imo, of mitchell was a 4 time all star by the age of 25. That would mean he was pretty good I reckon.

He wouldn't have been a 4 time allstar in the west

 

[fishonjazz]

I consider a franchise player/winner somebody who is the reason his team wins a series. Robert Horry was incredible and incredibly clutch. But Horry wasnt the catalyst for teams winning series. He was a key part but not the franchise player.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

I don't cleveland wins their championship without irving. He carried the cavs in multiple games in the finals against the warriors. But whatever, it sounds like you only want to go after #1 options on teams winning playoff series. Ok, I see.
Players like Draymond green, klay thompson, Tony parker, Manu ginobli, John stockton, Kevin love, ray allen, etc are players that you wouldn't want the jazz to try to acquire cause they are not the main reason their teams win playoff series.

Your criteria for the type of player you want the jazz to get are extremely high and unrealistic.

Hell, besides gobert there isn't a player on the jazz that you want to be on the jazz apparently. According to your criteria anyway.

We wanted Hayward to stay with the jazz for over 30 million per year. Yet we wouldn't want the younger, cheaper, more decorated player who helped his team win a championship. I just find it strange.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trade him to the EC; there's a chance he could be an all-star in a couple of years. Nah, most people are just stat watchers. Tough perimeter defense is lost on just about everyone.

But, again, show me how you put together a contender within 2 years by trading the farm for a 2yr rental? Utah just went through the dog and pony show with Hayward. Not a chance in hell, DL would do the same with Kyrie. With Dame, maybe he would have, because he had expressed an interest in Utah.

We'll bump this thread next year - or even mid-year - when Mitchell is looking like the steal of the draft on a $2m salary. And that's the other part of the equation. If you can spend $20m+ plus to acquire or keep another player, is that more valuable?

when did I say I wanted the jazz to trade the farm for kyrie?
My argument has been very simple. I find it strange that jazz fans don't have any interest in a young extremely talented player on a good contract. Especially someone who is excellent at doing things that our team needs and lacks. (Scoring)
I had this same discussion about westbrook and Harden a few years ago. I was in the minority of wanting them on the jazz. Same with cp3, Blake griffin, lillard, etc.
It's just strange to me is all.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Bleacher Report wrote about five teams that would make sense in a Kyrie trade. Utah was one of the teams. The deal was:

Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert for Ricky Rubio, Rodney Hood, Joe Johnson and 2019 1st-round pick (top-10 protected)

I would do that deal.

 

[fishonjazz]

He wouldn't have been a 4 time allstar in the west

What are you talking about? Who wouldn't be? I'm saying that I would be stoked if mitchell was a 4 time all star for the jazz by 25. You wouldn't?

Oh I see, you are saying kyrie wouldn't be a 4 time all star if he played in the west. I definitely think it's less likely but he still might be. No way to know for sure. It would depend on what team in the west he played for and how well he played on that team imo.
I think irvings name pops up when national media discusses the top point guards in the league. Not at the very top but I'm sure he would be in the discussion. (Irving made an all nba team after all. That includes both east and west players btw)
Lillard made multiple all star teams iirc and he doesn't play defense and is a chucker (a less efficient one) and his teams have not been that great.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I just dont know why anyone would want to give up significant assets for Kyrie. The only reason I could think of is for marketing reasons more than basketball ones. Teams like Milwaukee, Phoenix, Denver, and Minnesota could use him I guess since they struggle to sell tickets.

Really Phoenix, Denver, or Milwaukee are the only teams that make sense to me for Irving in terms of assets tradeable.

Here is a big stupid 4-way

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9tcpeqc

Utah gives up a draft pick to NYC.

 

[Jack Strop]

Bleacher Report wrote about five teams that would make sense in a Kyrie trade. Utah was one of the teams. The deal was:

Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert for Ricky Rubio, Rodney Hood, Joe Johnson and 2019 1st-round pick (top-10 protected)

I would do that deal.

Would Cleveland wait until December? Because I don't think Rubio can be traded until then.

@Cy...I agree Love to Utah has always made the most sense.

 

[akirac73]

I just dont know why anyone would want to give up significant assets for Kyrie. The only reason I could think of is for marketing reasons more than basketball ones. Teams like Milwaukee, Phoenix, Denver, and Minnesota could use him I guess since they struggle to sell tickets.

Really Phoenix, Denver, or Milwaukee are the only teams that make sense to me for Irving in terms of assets tradeable.

Here is a big stupid 4-way

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9tcpeqc

Utah gives up a draft pick to NYC.

Creative...
But NY gets screwed the most in this deal. They're the only team that doesn't get a "star" in the trade.
I would love to get Love on this team doe.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Creative...
But NY gets screwed the most in this deal. They're the only team that doesn't get a "star" in the trade.
I would love to get Love on this team doe.

Yea, that's why I gave them a pick (who is theoretically a perfect fit next to Porzingis). Maybe Phoenix also gives NYK a Miami pick? IDK.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's insane how many young kids like Kyrie Irving. I never knew how popular he was until last summer when school was out and more MS/HS kids were at thy gym when I run pickup. They all have Kyrie shoes and shirts and love Kyrie.