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Las Vegas: Worst Mass Shooting in US History

Who says a semi-auto isn't a hunting rifle?

There's a huge problem here where we have people with a limited understanding of guns.

I can get behind banning mod kits and the what not, but semi-autos? No thanks.

You can ban all this stuff, but it won't change much. Are you going to ban metal shops? Ban 3D printers? Let's at least be logical before we start taking things away.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Um, not sure how that is your take away. I did not say they turn a blind eye. I pointed out a problem with the law.

But on that subject the ATF agent I spoke with did mention that they do go into gun shows but the scope of what they can do is limited based on what the state will prosecute. He mentioned multiple times that Utah considers itself a "gun state" and does not want to jeopardize by prosecuting anything that isnt cut and dry against the law. They also dont want to be seen as attacking gun rights in Utah. He mentioned that they could make more arrests at gun shows because there are plenty of illegal things they see happening but they are not being prosecuted.

After talking to him fully auto guns do seem like less of a big deal. He said they do run into them in an illegal fashion but not that often. They are concerned about people making their own through smelting and 3d printers but that is another issue. 3D printers are becoming concerning for them since people can make untraceable guns at home now. They are very concerned about semi auto guns being converted and it is a bid deal in Utah and they have multiple people and companies making things like the bumper stock.

Again the big issue is that it is illegal to convert your own gun but that is not pursued in Utah very often. They also never go after people making the modification kits even though they feel as agents it is illegal. He said Utah does not want to set precedence with pursuing prosecution. He said they are working a large case right now of someone making these modification kits but the state wont charge them. They were hoping that the bumper stock used in the Vegas shooting would have come from this person/case so that they could use the outrage to get the state to go after them. It was not though.

He said that the most dense area for guns illegally sold/bought in Utah is the area around the homeless shelter in SLC. It is a haven for that apparently. Although the big crack down in that area has probably slowed it down.

He was of the opinion that until our culture in the West shifts away from being a gun culture very few law changes will make a big deal. He does hope Utah will be more aggressive with it current laws but doubts that it will happen. He did also mention that most agents in his department and the FBI which he is transitioning to so he can be allowed to do cyber crime stuff are fairly conservative and that most offices have fox news playing all the time.

He also mentioned that punishments in Utah are not that harsh. He said if he caught a felon with an illegal gun that the max sentence would be less than 3 years. But if he had crack on him instead it would probably be closer to 7-10 years. He said most of the time people break laws with guns it is not pursued that heavily unless it is in combination with another crime.

My take away was that Semi Auto should be banned and we should be going after companies or individuals making modification kits.
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That narrative doesn't make any sense to me. BATFE is a federal agency, not a state agency. So why do state politics matter in prosecuting a crime? It is possible Utah has been delegated enforcement authority over certain laws but I haven't heard of anything like that with BATFE.
 
franklin said:
I have never heard of bump stocks. It is insane that they are legal. I mean, I want one and am going to buy a couple, but legislation should have already outlawed them. I don't know why the NRA isn't ahead of the curve on stuff like this. How much good will would they receive from pushing for outlawing these kind of devices while still pushing 2nd rights? Even the republican senators are now leading D. Senator Feinstein's charge to outlaw these things in response to this event (don't tell Thriller, he'll probably have a cognitive dissonance breakdown over that news).
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The NRA is a ****ing joke. They don't represent the right to bear arms, but the right to make tons of money off of firearms.

As bad as this Vegas shooting was, it could have been a whole lot worse, had the shooter been equipped with suppressors. The shooting lasted for 10 minutes, partly because people thought it was only fireworks. Suppressors could have given this nutjob 2 or 3 times longer to shoot at people who would have had no idea anything was happening.

And guess who is currently supporting legislation to make suppressors legal to everyone? That's right, the NRA. Why you say? the answer is $$$$$. Stop supporting the NRA. They are a ****ing sham.

This whole thing is being sold as hearing protection. You know, because it's too much trouble to put ear plugs in. Never mind the potential abuses that would come with being able to shoot people without anyone hearing a shot.
 
Bulletproof said:
Way back when I was 19 I wanted to buy my first gun, a Ruger 10-22. I went to Doug's Shoot'n Sport and tried to buy one. My DL was expired so I was denied. I thought, aha! gun show is in town this weekend, I've heard how it's just a free-for-all and I'll be able to get a gun there. I paid to get into the gun show, I tried to buy a gun there, each time I was denied because I had an expired DL and therefore couldn't get the background check done, which every booth I went to had to do because they were all FFL holders. Never was I offered an alternative. Never did I find a booth run by a private seller. It was all FFLs running the booths as far as I could tell. It didn't have to be, but in my experience that's what it was. I left, no gun, having paid to get in and mostly finding beanie-babies and beef jerky, and a bunch of crap guns no one would sell me. And the guns were every bit as expensive as anything I could find at a gun store.
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I've been going to gun shows for about 35 years, and I've always been able to buy guns without a check. Yes, there are a lot of dealers there who have to abide by the rules, but there are also tons of private sellers. I don't know why you managed to find a gun show with no private sellers, but it's definitely not the norm. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of someone being unable to find private sellers at a gun show. I'm guessing maybe you were looking for something specific? If you go looking for a specific gun, I could see not being able to find it except through a dealer.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
I've been going to gun shows for about 35 years, and I've always been able to buy guns without a check. Yes, there are a lot of dealers there who have to abide by the rules, but there are also tons of private sellers. I don't know why you managed to find a gun show with no private sellers, but it's definitely not the norm. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of someone being unable to find private sellers at a gun show. I'm guessing maybe you were looking for something specific? If you go looking for a specific gun, I could see not being able to find it except through a dealer.
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Yes, I was looking for a Ruger 10-22 in reasonably good condition. That very well could have been why I couldn't find anything. And this was one of 2 gun show experiences for me and it was over 20 years ago.

There is almost nothing I'd rather avoid than paying to get into a gun show. I'd rather go to a nick-knack festival with my old aunt Gertrude and get matching butterfly face paint on our cheeks.
 
Bulletproof said:
Yes, I was looking for a Ruger 10-22 in reasonably good condition. That very well could have been why I couldn't find anything. And this was one of 2 gun show experiences for me and it was over 20 years ago.

There is almost nothing I'd rather avoid than paying to get into a gun show. I'd rather go to a nick-knack festival with my old aunt Gertrude and get matching butterfly face paint on our cheeks.
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There can be a pretty big variance in gun shows. The smaller ones mostly suck, but going to one of the bigger ones can be pretty cool. Some private sellers have collections of old guns that aren't for sale, but put them on display. It's kind of like going to a museum.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
The NRA is a ****ing joke. They don't represent the right to bear arms, but the right to make tons of money off of firearms.

As bad as this Vegas shooting was, it could have been a whole lot worse, had the shooter been equipped with suppressors. The shooting lasted for 10 minutes, partly because people thought it was only fireworks. Suppressors could have given this nutjob 2 or 3 times longer to shoot at people who would have had no idea anything was happening.

And guess who is currently supporting legislation to make suppressors legal to everyone? That's right, the NRA. Why you say? the answer is $$$$$. Stop supporting the NRA. They are a ****ing sham.

This whole thing is being sold as hearing protection. You know, because it's too much trouble to put ear plugs in. Never mind the potential abuses that would come with being able to shoot people without anyone hearing a shot.
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That's messed up and what I was pointing to. Fanatical **** does nothing but turn people off to a cause. Drop that and get ahead of the curve if you want to influence people.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
The NRA is a ****ing joke. They don't represent the right to bear arms, but the right to make tons of money off of firearms.

As bad as this Vegas shooting was, it could have been a whole lot worse, had the shooter been equipped with suppressors. The shooting lasted for 10 minutes, partly because people thought it was only fireworks. Suppressors could have given this nutjob 2 or 3 times longer to shoot at people who would have had no idea anything was happening.

And guess who is currently supporting legislation to make suppressors legal to everyone? That's right, the NRA. Why you say? the answer is $$$$$. Stop supporting the NRA. They are a ****ing sham.

This whole thing is being sold as hearing protection. You know, because it's too much trouble to put ear plugs in. Never mind the potential abuses that would come with being able to shoot people without anyone hearing a shot.
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Just to clarify here, you would certainly hear a .223 (I'm assuming that's what he used) with a suppressor on. It doesn't make a gun silent, it just muffles it. Now if you put it on a .22, it's pretty close to silent.

I wouldn't mind suppressors being more accessible, but they're not hard to get. Just expensive and a lengthy process. If I really wanted to, I could go to a machinist friend and make one myself, but I don't want to go around the law. But as someone who shoots high powered rifles, it sure would be handy. And wearing ear protection while hunting isn't that realistic.

This whole issue is dramatized by people who watch too many movies where guns are silent.
 
You realize that silencers do not completely muffle the sound of the shot right? They only lessen it somewhat. An AR 15 with a silencer is still pretty damn loud. Not to mention using them in rapid succession wears them out very quickly. In this case it would have done next to nothing and might have even saved lives. The silencer would have warped and then it would explode in his face within the first few minutes.
 
franklin said:
That narrative doesn't make any sense to me. BATFE is a federal agency, not a state agency. So why do state politics matter in prosecuting a crime? It is possible Utah has been delegated enforcement authority over certain laws but I haven't heard of anything like that with BATFE.
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Because crimes are punished on the state level. They work hand in hand with local authorities and prosecutors.
 
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