green
Well-Known Member
Go back and read my next post please.
LIES! (Just keep reading)
- Thread starter orangello
- Start date
Go back and read my next post please.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Proof?
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Serious question:
How many of those were all stars in their first three years?
Now I certainly don't think the bigs in particular have played minutes that have been ideal, but I think you're going about this in the wrong way.
b_line
Well-Known Member
The one about development? Where you said this: "You missed the point of the post. My issue isn't the picks made, but how the assets obtained from that trade have been used (they haven't). I've stated multiple times that I think Kanter will be a top three big man in a couple of years. I've stated I think Favor's floor is a better Chandler. So why aren't the Jazz issuing these assets? Why did Hayward's minutes drop this year? What was the point of trading Deron the last two years if you do not get anything worthwhile in return?
Basically my point is the Jazz have wasted the last two years with Al, Millsap, Howard, Bell, Foye, Marvin and Mo. They would have better off to keep Deron. At least they would have been a higher seed last year and made the playoffs this year."
I think I just disagree a little about the development. I don't think they have failed yet, but I am a little upset that they don't get playing time. I was not disagreeing with you on the earlier post, just saying that I thought they could be good like the players you listed. I don't think they are busts yet, like you said in the other post. Anyway, I think this coming year is where we can say if they are failing or not in the development of the young players.
jope
Well-Known Member
maybe not a true superstar, but since getting healthy again in his last 10 games he's going for 24pts and 9 asts on 51% shooting. I'd take that on this team any day.
b_line
Well-Known Member
Yeah, he still does have talent. With the C4, he would probably look like a superstar again, gettin all those assists. Of course, he would probably average three death stares at Hayward every night for passing instead of finishing the play.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
....wouldn't bring back Jerry even if he were to coach for free! This league and era is way past his prime and coaching ability! As far as long term contracts, depends on what your definition of "long term" is! Personally, I think the Jazz have thrown a lot of money away on players with 3 year contracts that contribute less than some D-League guys would have done....or at least couldn't have done any worse! As a number of posters have already pointed out, we've wasted 2 seasons with a bunch of non-athletic role players and bogus draft choices that have come from other teams that have turned Jazz basketball into something unrecognizable by the previous fan base of years gone by! What the Jazz front office has done in recent years especially with the hiring of Corbin, a virtual Sloan "clone" is not and has not worked! I don't know that SVG would be able to do much better...but it would certainly have been more entertaining that what we've witnessed the past two years, agree?
b_line
Well-Known Member
Raja Bell is the only guy that comes to mind as a bad three year wasted contract. Who else you thinking of when you say that we have dead weight contracts?
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...copy and paste the Jazz roster the past two years with salaries.....and I'd be happy to point them out to you!
b_line
Well-Known Member
2013
O. NAME POS AGE HT WT COLLEGE 2012-2013 SALARY
10 Alec Burks PG 21 6-6 202 Colorado $2,111,160
3 DeMarre Carroll SF 26 6-8 212 Missouri $885,120
40 Jeremy Evans SF 25 6-9 194 Western Kentucky $1,794,872
15 Derrick Favors PF 21 6-10 248 Georgia Tech $4,753,320
8 Randy Foye PG 29 6-4 213 Villanova $2,500,000
20 Gordon Hayward SG 23 6-8 210 Butler $2,709,720
25 Al Jefferson C 28 6-10 289 $15,000,000
0 Enes Kanter C 20 6-11 267 Kentucky $4,319,280
22 Jerel McNeal SG 25 6-3 200 Marquette $44,835
24 Paul Millsap PF 28 6-8 253 Louisiana Tech $8,603,633
55 Kevin Murphy SG 23 6-6 185 Tennessee Tech $473,604
6 Jamaal Tinsley PG 35 6-3 197 Iowa State $1,352,181
11 Earl Watson PG 33 6-1 199 UCLA $2,300,000
2 Marvin Williams PF 26 6-9 245 North Carolina $8,287,500
5 Mo Williams PG 30 6-1 195 Alabama $8,500,000
Coach: Tyrone Corbin
Ellipse
Well-Known Member
"Superstar" has become an overused word to describe merely "exceptional" basketball players. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, and maybe Durant are superstars; I can't think of any others since the mid-eighties that qualify.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...thanks for the effort! The ones in bold are pathetic contracts, even if they were for just 1 year!
vslice02
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter if any of the Core-4 are "superstars" or not (and I don't think they are). The point is they're talented young players with potential whose development has been marginalized by playing mediocre vets on a team that finished 9th in their conference.
I don't believe in "tanking" and I do believe in the benefits of fostering a winning enviromnent (which isn't always feasible) - but multiple reasons were given by Jazz personel throughout the season to support Ty/KOC's bizarre actions which included phrases like "82 meaningful games"..."avoid a losing culture"..."young players need to watch"..."fans will grow impatient watching the young guys lose" all of which has been shot to pieces given the facts GS in still playing and (moreso) the Jazz are in Cancun (see Mo/Stackhouse tweets) watching.
The Jazz tried to do it their way - when as late as the trade deadline their realistic ceiling was still only a 7/8-seed - and grossly miscalculated the talent of their veteran players as well as Ty Corbin's coaching ability. I've defended many Jazz moves throughout the years but this strategy was doomed from the start - and much of the criticism over their decisions this season is warranted. In 2012-13 - the Jazz failed.
I don't believe in "tanking" and I do believe in the benefits of fostering a winning enviromnent (which isn't always feasible) - but multiple reasons were given by Jazz personel throughout the season to support Ty/KOC's bizarre actions which included phrases like "82 meaningful games"..."avoid a losing culture"..."young players need to watch"..."fans will grow impatient watching the young guys lose" all of which has been shot to pieces given the facts GS in still playing and (moreso) the Jazz are in Cancun (see Mo/Stackhouse tweets) watching.
The Jazz tried to do it their way - when as late as the trade deadline their realistic ceiling was still only a 7/8-seed - and grossly miscalculated the talent of their veteran players as well as Ty Corbin's coaching ability. I've defended many Jazz moves throughout the years but this strategy was doomed from the start - and much of the criticism over their decisions this season is warranted. In 2012-13 - the Jazz failed.
b_line
Well-Known Member
Earl Watson, 2 years, 2 million
Randy Foye, 1 year, 3.5 mil
Marvin we traded for, and Mo we traded for. Mo expires this year as well, and Marvin next year.
I don't think Al is a bad contract necessarily (we traded for him) but he was bad this last year, because there were two guys ready to play in front of him. He is productive, but I would rather have the young guys. Teams have to have 13 guys, so we can't just sign no one. The cheap vet contracts on one year deals don't bug me too bad, its just the minutes of those guys that bug me.
Thanks.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Bravo. Well said!
Julie Greengiant
Well-Known Member
Kareem??? Malone??? Barkley??? KG???