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Lockout!!!

Sirkickyass said:
What in the hell?

Not two days ago you stated in no uncertain terms that you thought the players were negotiating in bad faith.

You also apparently totally missed the second sentence where I said owners were probably closer to the bad faith line (and perhaps over it) when they were threatening that their offers would get worse as time went on rather than better. The idea that you and I were saying the same thing, that no one has negotiated in bad faith, is doubly wrong because you didn't say that and I didn't say that. I think there was probably a legitimate case for bad faith negotiations on the part of the owners during an earlier period of the process.

You've been getting killed in this thread by GVC and IGS because you apparently either don't understand or refuse to conceptualize that that someone can actually look at the total level of BRI ($3.817 billion in 2010-2011) and make estimates as to how changes in share affect the total $300 million operating deficit alleged by the NBA owners, retreating instead to some idea that no one can ever make fairly educated guesses as to the magnitude of the concessions by one side.

It doesn't take a genius to see that if we move from a 57% player share of BRI to a 50% share of BRI that the owners are netting approximately $267 million on the transaction. Nor does it take a genius to understand why cost-structures and profit margins of other sports leagues, especially those that share many of the same markets, are relevant to determining the potential profitability of the league on a going-forward basis. You've been in weird fundamental denial of these things as whole ideas and spicing up your posts with a weirdly aggressive tone, including one post reading only "**** you." That's why I said you're getting tooled around. It makes you look like the guy who doesn't understand and is getting unduly hostile towards those who are discussing the issue in non-abstract terms.
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**** you.




































You have to know I'm kidding.
 
shadler said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_meeting_092711


Not sure how I feel about this. Favors more rich owners who will pay for the title when it is all said and done.
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I'm not sure how you got "looks like the owners are giving in" from the link you posted. They budged on the hard cap, but they proposed a system with far harsher punishment for going over the limit than what we have now. It even mentions in the article that the proposal would effectively be a hard cap, and that the players would not accept it.
 
carolinajazz said:
...look, I think most are missing the whole point! The owners are not going to budge an inch! Why? They are simply tired of paying a group of employees huge sums of money, much of which is spent at "strip clubs" and who's only claim to fame is producing numerous illegitimate babies by multiple women, while tattooing their bodies from head to toe, and trashing the game of basketball with their pathetic lack of team play. None of which will change by the players if and when a new CBA is reached....but by golly they will be doing it on half the money they were making before hand!
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Your racism blinds you to what's really going on. Most of the owners couldn't care less what the money they pay their employees is being spent on or even what moral choices their employees are making. They are happy to pay a salary to employees who attract significantly more money than they cost in gate receipts. They would simply prefer to pay those employees less, if possible.
 
carolinajazz said:
...look, I think most are missing the whole point! The owners are not going to budge an inch! Why? They are simply tired of paying a group of employees huge sums of money, much of which is spent at "strip clubs"...
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the owners like to spend their money that way too:

A Russian billionaire was being held by French police tonight on suspicion of procuring prostitutes for his wealthy friends.

Mikhail Prokhorov, who has been dubbed Russia’s most eligible bachelor, was arrested for flying young women from Moscow into the Alpine resort of Courchevel to join his party for their holidays.

Mr Prokhorov was taken into custody at the Hotel Byblos by a team of 50 officers. He told police that he brought the women because he enjoyed the company of clever, beautiful and young female companions. Seven Russian women aged about 20 were released without charge.
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https://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/europe/article1292023.ece
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Your racism blinds you to what's really going on. Most of the owners couldn't care less what the money they pay their employees is being spent on or even what moral choices their employees are making. They are happy to pay a salary to employees who attract significantly more money than they cost in gate receipts. They would simply prefer to pay those employees less, if possible.
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I didn't see one racist comment in that statement. He was generalizing about an organization's employees not a race of people. Are you implying that those behaviors are delegated to one race? It looks like you Joe Ba:eek:gadonuts are the racist. https://jazzfanz.com/images/smilies/eek.png
 
Wolverine Newby said:
I didn't see one racist comment in that statement. He was generalizing about an organization's employees not a race of people. Are you implying that those behaviors are delegated to one race? It looks like you Joe Ba:eek:gadonuts are the racist. https://jazzfanz.com/images/smilies/eek.png
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...obviously, the wolverine man knows, like I do, that behind the scene, the owners what to change the entire image of today's NBA, make it more "European" like, and at the same time, reduce payroll by half! The yearn for the "good old days" of Bird and Johnson, Stockton and Malone, Havalichek and Jo Jo White, West and Baylor...when basketball was watchable, and coaches were more than babysitters and cheerleaders! They want TEAM basketball!....not the AND1 slop that is presently the NBA!
 
carolinajazz said:
...obviously, the wolverine man knows, like I do, that behind the scene, the owners what to change the entire image of today's NBA, make it more "European" like, and at the same time, reduce payroll by half!
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Such an ambassador for your beliefs.
 
At its core, the onetime, get-out-of-debt-free clause helps teams that foolishly overspent for players. You couldn't blame the league's savvier executives (like Oklahoma City's Sam Presti) for bristling if and when it's invoked — especially for some of last summer's more questionable signings, when teams knew a harder cap was coming and acted recklessly anyway. Is it fair to whisk away those mistakes when someone like Presti, who spent wisely and frugally these past few years, gets no benefits whatsoever? That's just one of the confounding things about this lockout: Much of it seems to be about resetting the big picture for teams that couldn't handle operating within that big picture. How is that the players' fault? It's a great question.
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Simmons: Good call. Only one way this doesn't happen: If Dallas can't re-sign Tyson Chandler. Do you realize that one of us has suggested a combined total of THIRTEEN amnesty guys who were signed or extended in the summer of 2010? Jermaine O'Neal, Linas Kleiza, Carlos Boozer, Travis Outlaw, Josh Childress, David Lee, Mike Miller, Ryan Gomes, Darko Milicic, Richard Jefferson, Drew Gooden, Al Harrington and Brendan Haywood. The owners' complaining about player salaries being too high is like the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills complaining about being in the public eye. It makes no sense. I'm starting to get bitter again, Abrams.
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From the entertaining but generally unrelated article here: https://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7026680/welcome-amnesty-20-nba
 
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7031637/nba-lockout-owners-players-meet-friday-possibly-weekend

Looks like they're working through the weekend.

Highlights of proposed changes:

The "Larry Bird exception," which allows teams to exceed the cap to retain their own free agents regardless of their other committed salaries, is limited to one player per team per season.

• The mid-level exception, which the league valued at $7.4 million last season and could be extended by as many as five years, is reduced in length and size.

• The current luxury tax, the $1-for-$1 penalty a team must pay to the league for the amount it exceeds the salary cap, is to be severely increased.

In last week's negotiating session, the owners proposed that the players' share of basketball-related income, or BRI, be sliced from 57 percent to 46 percent, and a source told Broussard that the players were offered 48 percent of BRI on Tuesday.

The owners also want a 5 percent reduction on all existing salaries for this season, a 7.5 percent reduction of all 2012-13 salaries and 10 percent reduction of 2013-14 salaries, a source said.
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I hope this gets done. This lockout obviously hurts a lot of contenders. But it also hurts the Jazz ability to develop guys.
 
trigg3r said:
I hope this gets done. This lockout obviously hurts a lot of contenders. But it also hurts the Jazz ability to develop guys.
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I do assume that if the season were lost, that Kanter would play in Europe, but obviously not the same as being with the Jazz.
 
NCJazz said:
I do assume that if the season were lost, that Kanter would play in Europe, but obviously not the same as being with the Jazz.
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I don't. There aren't a lot of roster spots up for grabs over there for more than peanuts. And if he wanted to develop in Europe, he wouldn't have pissed off the Turkish federation by trying to go the American route. Kanter's focus is the NBA to a fault.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don't. There aren't a lot of roster spots up for grabs over there for more than peanuts. And if he wanted to develop in Europe, he wouldn't have pissed off the Turkish federation by trying to go the American route. Kanter's focus is the NBA to a fault.
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Huh? For one thing he only made a small amount playing professionally in Europe so I think he might want to make some money this year even if only around 1-2 million. He just finished getting decent minutes on the national team as a 19 year old. You are telling me some Turkish team or other European team would not sign him?
 
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