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Bumpity Bump Bump . . . . .

So here's something to talk about. . . . . From Sir Kicky, no less. . . .

I have a few questions about this sentence.

1) Are you familiar with "Gone with the Wind?"
2) Is it your contention that females were so dominant during the mid 1800's in the South that men needed a hero to emancipate them from the overall culture?
3) Did you read this interpretation of the work somewhere? And if so, can you tell me where so that I may acquire copies for my amusement?
4) Do you believe that the primary problem with Southern culture is that it gives too much power to female dysfunction?
5) Is this the most accurate depiction of Southern culture in modern media?

I never read GTTW, but I've seen the movie. . . . maybe even twice. . . . so hell yeah I could be way off on my use of the Rhett Butler/Scarlet O'Hara finale.

My mother was pretty much another kind of woman from Scarlet. But she apparently had a favorite in the actor Clark Gable. . . . and probably watched this movie maybe once or twice too. Her husband pretty much dumped her about that time, leaving my mom feeling pretty much the way Scarlet must have felt.

My mom was not a high-society socialite at all, more of a floor-scrubbing maid to her husband and kids with. . . . mostly likely. . . . not enough time for her hubby, and a nagging disposition perhaps. . . . as my dad must have taken it. . . . compiling lists of things her kids needed and thinking that was essential conversational fare. . . .

I figured GTTW was about the end of a way of life, and Scarlet's loss of Rhett was a metaphor of all that. But the whole subject of crossed expectations in relationships, or different views of what "it's all about", is an eternal problem in all cultures and all relationships. . . . and how we can try to create a relationship worthwhile to both. . . or all. . . . is another eternal set of issues. . . . .
 
women who spend more than fifteen minutes getting dressed for the day, or for any event. . . . are pretty much off my radar, and I'm not on their's for sure. I think my wife buys one dress about every ten years. . . . and typically pads around the house barefoot, and has some ragged torn old sandals she'll step into if she goes outside. . . .I don't get dressed up for anything. . . . well, I'll take a shower and pull on some fresh clothes when I go to the bank, but that's about it. No high society around here, folks. . . .

I look on women who focus on their appearance and who perhaps may expect to attract or motivate some man because of their beauty as figures from the past. . . . High School Prom queens from an age ago. I remember one girl I dated in high school. A mousy little redhead who caught my interest because she could beat me at a game of chess. . . .. she would always remind me about the next school dance, and I'd always take her. She actually looked nice when she had a decent dress. I fell in love, well "puppy love". . . .but as the year ended and I was graduating, she dumped me. I was just floored. Eventually she let it out that she had needed me to take her to the dances because all her girlfriends were going to those dances. . . .

And ever since, when I see some female taking inordinate time out of the day. . . more than fifteen minutes. . . . primping her appearance and in any way trying to improve it. . . .I think in terms of Scarlet O'Hara. What for? That's just not essential to life and, well, . . .. it demonstrates a totally different value system from mine.
 
Well, except for my dislike of promoting offshore slave labor, Wal-Mart is a place I go once in a while. I've heard it is a fashion statement today. . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uioRTQugJI
 
So here's another take:

Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
Well, obviously you're too wrapped up in your special sensitivities guided by political correctness to just pass on some blatant sexist humor to tolerate the lower classes of folks like me. I've had my share of women in my life who are all wrapped up in their need to get acceptable results from their men, and I'll laugh at them and say "I don't give a damn" when I need to. Just to keep myself on task with an edge of sanity.

I think it is fundamentally intolerant of human beings to actually expect to educate and instruct other people who somehow fail to understand all you think you do. You have the process of coping with the problems in life inverted. You should work on your own failings and try to understand others and leave them the hell alone.

My higher criticism of Gone With The Wind pretty much reflects the girlfriend I had who cried when she watch that movie with me almost fifty years ago. I've never known what to think of women, really. I just think it doesn't pay to dance to their music, so to speak. I try to be nice, and will usually not bother them with my views unless it just gets so bad that if I don't say something I might forget myself and stomp on their little toes on purpose. That's what's so useful about the "I don't give a damn" strategy. . . . . it is a clear way out of an intolerable maze of crossed interpretations of reality and futile gestures of civility, with minimal damage.

Today's crop of intolerant bigots who pride themselves on being "progressive" are little different from yesterday's crop of intolerant bigots who prided themselves on being "right" somehow in some manner justifying their impositions of their ways on other people. The Ku Klux Klan mobs and the communist thugs who ransacked Russia in the 1920s running farmers out of their homes and seizing the land for "collectives" were of a common human sort. We have always used some ideal to justify our hate and abuse of others. Progressives and gays are no exceptions.

Hate is never going to be ruled out of existence by any crusaders with delusions of grandeur who believe they can make the world. . . and humans. . . . better.

Hate arises in the human heart with every idea of how to make the world better whether in terms of collective or personal aims. We cannot love without hate. You cannot make a mountain higher without digging a valley deeper. It's a yin/yang sort of thing perhaps. I cannot love the American experiment in human liberty without hating the dear old castles of Europe my ancestors lived in, and the feudal order of human society. You cannot love love your delusional ideals of a better world remade in progressive mantras without hating rednecks cruising the Southern woods with their hounds, guns, and fishing poles. You cannot think you are better somehow without thinking others are worse.

And I can't escape my own contradictions, either.

That's why the capacity to just leave other people alone is necessary to a good friendship with anyone. I might actually love ladies of culture and refinement who resort to the strategies of Scarlet O'hara for a lot of reasons or other human motives just as much as I hate them, but the fact is I will not succeed in any lasting or decent way if I try to change them somehow. That's why it can help to just say "I don't give a damn" and lecture to myself about why I can live without actually having to try to do something about it.

I believe the ideals of the American experiment in human liberty worked better for mankind than either the old feudal system of Europe or the new feudal system of progressive elitism/socialism now being "benevolently" imposed on the poor stupid humans you can't stand. I believe the fundamental right to think, speak, and feel is essential to people's capacity to achieve any of their individual goals, and that there is no better organization of society that can be achieved on a collective community, state, national or global level than can be achieved by putting premium value on "societal" goals, because the personal or individual ideals are closer to the reality of what we are.

Some have observed that all politics are local. . . but the more accurate statement is "All politics are personal". I'm just enough of globalist myself to love ideas about a "better world" somehow, but I realize people whose methods involve reshaping other people are never going to make it a better world. I can hammer away with my words on others, but unless I find something that others will choose to make their own, it's just useless ramblings of delusional mental exercise. . . . .

I've seen some examples of people whose ideals sorta took them over and pushed out personal interests and concerns even for their own welfare. Communist and even progressive ideologues can do that as well as any religious zealot. I've seen idealists go over the rim en masse for all kinds of causes seen as "for the good of others" or "to save the planet", and in almost every crusade of this sort, if you look for them, you'll see people using the movement for some personal gain. . . and in fact. . . . whipping up the sentiments via media or organizations to maximize their personal power and profit.

Alexander Solzhenitzsyn's observations on Russia led him to religiously believe the common Russian was the fundamental unit of goodness, a goodness that exists in fact only at the personal level, in the individual human soul. I think it is a universal truth, a human truth. It's the nature of human beings. No collective or social level of organization can rise above the free will or virtue of what people are as individuals.

Respect for that basic human free will is the best ideal we have ever conceived, or ever will conceive. Every ideal that tries to reshape basic human free will is an attempt to impose bondage on mankind.

Love people, hate people, love them and hate them at the same time, but leave them the hell alone.

And that, my dear, is precisely why I need to say "I don't give a damn."

This is pure crap.


This is the way I took ECTAP's response, and frankly, I thought that was a very reasonable response just as it stood. . . . .

probably, for the sake of friendship or something, the part about it being a joke was meant to just not hurt my little intzy wintzy feelings. . . . .
 
Cultural Context in discussing ideals. . . .

Anyway, I started thinking a bit about how reasonable people could actually think my little essay was crap. Actually, I often think my work is crap myself, and often re-write things from a completely different perspective. . . . if I have the time of day to do all that. . . .

I can see where a youngster from, say, a village of Turkey characterized by some fairly unique little religious clique. . . . could have difficulty with my crap.

What I'm wondering is. . . in Turkey or in other areas with large Moslem populations. . . . is there any current fascination with ideals that are based on individual uniqueness and individual accountability for ideas and actions????

Pretty clear my American nostalgia about human rights hasn't been seeing a lot of press in the Middle East. . . .
 
My bad...



Now /thread!!






Better??

tell you what. . . . maybe I could just open a private forum and leave you the hell alone?

hmmmm. . . . one of these days when I see you open a thread maybe I should save us all some pain and say enough is enough. . . . .+


actually, no need, really. I have sorta lost interest in catching up with PKM's thread. . . . it's really like an amoeba trailing a cheetah. . . .

but hey, if you want to get me going, nothing will do it as well as a has-been rehash of a 1920s progressive getting all prissy about telling others what to do. . . .

especially me.

I'm the kid that could stand up to a bunch of old farts when I was eight and tell them I'm not their boy.
 
Bumpity Bump Bump . . . . .

So here's something to talk about. . . . . From Sir Kicky, no less. . . .



I never read GTTW, but I've seen the movie. . . . maybe even twice. . . . so hell yeah I could be way off on my use of the Rhett Butler/Scarlet O'Hara finale.

My mother was pretty much another kind of woman from Scarlet. But she apparently had a favorite in the actor Clark Gable. . . . and probably watched this movie maybe once or twice too. Her husband pretty much dumped her about that time, leaving my mom feeling pretty much the way Scarlet must have felt.

My mom was not a high-society socialite at all, more of a floor-scrubbing maid to her husband and kids with. . . . mostly likely. . . . not enough time for her hubby, and a nagging disposition perhaps. . . . as my dad must have taken it. . . . compiling lists of things her kids needed and thinking that was essential conversational fare. . . .

I figured GTTW was about the end of a way of life, and Scarlet's loss of Rhett was a metaphor of all that. But the whole subject of crossed expectations in relationships, or different views of what "it's all about", is an eternal problem in all cultures and all relationships. . . . and how we can try to create a relationship worthwhile to both. . . or all. . . . is another eternal set of issues. . . . .

Woman from movies that are just so beautiful and capable and irresistible in every way.. (for me anyway)..

Honestly I really can't think of any from newer films... not really sure why...........................

1. Melanie Daniels (The Birds)

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2. Audrey Hepburn (Breakfast at Tiffany's)

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3. Grace Kelly (Rear Window)

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Pretty sure that was not the desired end.

From a purely philosophical frame of mind. . . . "desire" is in some respects antithetical to "end", as it is only the living that desire breath.

similarly, when one undertakes the high and noble aim of achieving "meaninglessness" as a pure and undefiled virtue, "meaninglessness" itself becomes an "end" or a "desire".

Zulu has sometimes struck me as quite the antithesis of reason in that like others taken over by a politcal cause, the cause itself becomes the image of "reason" and requires it's proponents to ignore all sensible objections, or to conjure up fabrications of reality which will sustain their beliefs. . . . .and in fact, the smarter one is, the more capable they are of becoming idiots for their beliefs. . . . .

When anyone tries to hijack my own cause with something that appears sensible at first, I will first pretend not to understand the objections, then secondly I will create diversions to other ideas and pretend the objections just are not real, and thirdly I will construct elaborate denials. . . . . and fourthly I will double and redouble my pious defenses. It has been rightly observed of the Mormon Church, for example, throughout it's doctrinal history, that every sea-change of doctrine has been preceeded by the most pious defenses of the old doctrine. . . .and people in general are no different.

If I were going to tire of this thread, the preceeding signal would be a great last hurrah, so to speak. But no, this is my living room. I turn the light on when I want folks to come around, and if I am just busy with other things I just can't be bothered here.

I was going to do a little essay on "meaninglessness" as it is explained at length in huge volumes of philosophical works by the best philosophical minds of the twentieth century. . . . even before, and continuing to this day. Truly an inexhaustible subject worthy of explanation if there ever was one. . . .

But I prefer simple exhibitions of it, and so here is my little thread. . . .
 
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