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Game Thread Mar 20, 2024 06:00PM MT: Jazz at Thunder

Added to Calendar: 03-20-24

SoberasHotRod said:
Yeah, I got that from the pod, which is fine, but the tweet just came off wrong for me.
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I didn't have a major issue with it either. Just think he misrepresented the frustrated part of the fan base. The reason there wasn't complaining at the date he mentions is that they were lined up for a top 4 pick. They had a good chance the year before too, but came away with Giddey. The complainers are upset we aren't tanking hard enough in either year. Like are we coming out of this draft with Chet and two other lotto prospects?

The whole "following this model" thing is dumb anyway. All the successes and failures look a little different. I would say the two mistakes we made were not tanking hard enough to start last year and trading for John Collins.

Also, if the franchise wants to limit complaining then their messaging needs to get more consistent. They don't have to be super transparent or anything but there are some things that are just wildly inconsistent.
 
I have no issues with what Locke said. As Cy mentions above, let the "process" play out. We don't know the outcome yet. Besides, OKC is a rare case (a top team already although still very young).
 
Agent#00 said:
I admire Sam presti. PG trade was gold for okc


View: https://x.com/CAlmanza1007/status/1676628560138891264?s=20


Then they drafted

2021- giddey (6) sengun (16 traded to Hou) tre man (18)
2022-Chet holmgren (2)Jalen Williams (12)
2023-derek lively(12 traded to dal)

And still have

2024- 4 FRP
2025-5 FRP
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Presti got lucky as hell he had Westbrook who was able to recruit PG, who then got recruited by Kawhi so they had to overpay because it was essentially a trade to get Kawhi and PG.

Great GM, but man he has had some stuff gift wrapped for him. DA put in work for the Gobert/Mitchell trades
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
I didn't have a major issue with it either. Just think he misrepresented the frustrated part of the fan base. The reason there wasn't complaining at the date he mentions is that they were lined up for a top 4 pick. They had a good chance the year before too, but came away with Giddey. The complainers are upset we aren't tanking hard enough in either year. Like are we coming out of this draft with Chet and two other lotto prospects?

The whole "following this model" thing is dumb anyway. All the successes and failures look a little different. I would say the two mistakes we made were not tanking hard enough to start last year and trading for John Collins.

Also, if the franchise wants to limit complaining then their messaging needs to get more consistent. They don't have to be super transparent or anything but there are some things that are just wildly inconsistent.
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I agree that the “follow this model” thing is extremely stupid, one of the reasons I thought that tweet was so dumb. Like if the model is to draft Jalen Williams, wow it’s so easy why is everyone worried! Come to think of it, let’s just follow our old model of drafting Mitchell and Gobert later in the draft. How dare you complain!

And to your point, he is directly misrepresenting the other point. He’s complaining about impatience and turning around on the path. The Jazz FO is turning around on the path and constantly changing directions. It’s not about impatience at all, it’s about not having a clear direction and having different directions all on the same year. There would not be “impatient” fans if the Jazz did not make trades for Collins/Play half the season to win and half the season to quit.

OKC did the exact opposite. They picked a direction, maybe to an extreme by shutting down SGA. If I had to bet, the majority of people would have invited more impatience. Whatever direction the Jazz chose, I think most would say it was good. We’re all homers. Problem is the Jazz keep going back and forth.

I understand it’s his job, but it seriously rubs me the wrong way when a talking head says “don’t complain and the reason you are complaining is a personal flaw”. Meanwhile, he made up the reason why everyone is upset and used the most insulting example.
 
Tanktastic said:
What is the process? "Hope to get lucky"? So far "the process" has been "to be flexible" which is... nothing and doesn't just play out.

Locke is quite often simplistic front office talking points.
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It's all about getting lucky and positioning yourself to take advantage.

Last year they turned Lauri into a top 30 guy.

This year they drafted Keyonte and turned Sexton into a top 50-ish guy.

They also have promising guys like Hendricks and Walker who could be very valuable rotation players or starters.

They are making progress in building their foundation while increasing their assets. That's crazy. The Jazz are getting better by adding talent while increasing asset base. Just give it some time.

How spoiled are we as a franchise when we constantly bitch about not getting high picks but we got Keyonte who might be the 3rd best player in this class.
 
KqWIN said:
I agree that the “follow this model” thing is extremely stupid, one of the reasons I thought that tweet was so dumb. Like if the model is to draft Jalen Williams, wow it’s so easy why is everyone worried! Come to think of it, let’s just follow our old model of drafting Mitchell and Gobert later in the draft. How dare you complain!

And to your point, he is directly misrepresenting the other point. He’s complaining about impatience and turning around on the path. The Jazz FO is turning around on the path and constantly changing directions. It’s not about impatience at all, it’s about not having a clear direction and having different directions all on the same year. There would not be “impatient” fans if the Jazz did not make trades for Collins/Play half the season to win and half the season to quit.

OKC did the exact opposite. They picked a direction, maybe to an extreme by shutting down SGA. If I had to bet, the majority of people would have invited more impatience. Whatever direction the Jazz chose, I think most would say it was good. We’re all homers. Problem is the Jazz keep going back and forth.

I understand it’s his job, but it seriously rubs me the wrong way when a talking head says “don’t complain and the reason you are complaining is a personal flaw”. Meanwhile, he made up the reason why everyone is upset and used the most insulting example.
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Good post

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It's all about getting lucky and positioning yourself to take advantage.

Last year they turned Lauri into a top 30 guy.

This year they drafted Keyonte and turned Sexton into a top 50-ish guy.

They also have promising guys like Hendricks and Walker who could be very valuable rotation players or starters.

They are making progress in building their foundation while increasing their assets. That's crazy. The Jazz are getting better by adding talent while increasing asset base. Just give it some time.

How spoiled are we as a franchise when we constantly bitch about not getting high picks but we got Keyonte who might be the 3rd best player in this class.
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Also a good post.


Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
KqWIN said:
I agree that the “follow this model” thing is extremely stupid, one of the reasons I thought that tweet was so dumb. Like if the model is to draft Jalen Williams, wow it’s so easy why is everyone worried! Come to think of it, let’s just follow our old model of drafting Mitchell and Gobert later in the draft. How dare you complain!

And to your point, he is directly misrepresenting the other point. He’s complaining about impatience and turning around on the path. The Jazz FO is turning around on the path and constantly changing directions. It’s not about impatience at all, it’s about not having a clear direction and having different directions all on the same year. There would not be “impatient” fans if the Jazz did not make trades for Collins/Play half the season to win and half the season to quit.

OKC did the exact opposite. They picked a direction, maybe to an extreme by shutting down SGA. If I had to bet, the majority of people would have invited more impatience. Whatever direction the Jazz chose, I think most would say it was good. We’re all homers. Problem is the Jazz keep going back and forth.

I understand it’s his job, but it seriously rubs me the wrong way when a talking head says “don’t complain and the reason you are complaining is a personal flaw”. Meanwhile, he made up the reason why everyone is upset and used the most insulting example.
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Right. I also think the org has dangled the "we are trading for a star" narrative real hard which invites impatience. Like we are all waiting for that dude that fixes all this in one swoop.

I don't even think kicking the can down the road was a problem this year but was pretty obvious that we didn't have a bad enough team to tank last year and I thought it was a mistake. I think we can still kinda be patient this summer but in between now and the trade deadline next year I think you have to be more intentional one way or another. Take your pick but the runway is real short now.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Right. I also think the org has dangled the "we are trading for a star" narrative real hard which invites impatience. Like we are all waiting for that dude that fixes all this in one swoop.

I don't even think kicking the can down the road was a problem this year but was pretty obvious that we didn't have a bad enough team to tank last year and I thought it was a mistake. I think we can still kinda be patient this summer but in between now and the trade deadline next year I think you have to be more intentional one way or another. Take your pick but the runway is real short now.
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Yeah, like I said, regardless of whether you think the Jazz are doing well that tweet still does not sit right with me. Do not invoke the "OKC model" on upset fans. I think the two most relevant questions for this season have been "What is the point of this season" and "What are we doing". There was no mistaking the answers for those questions as an OKC fan on March 20th 2022. It was loud and clear....with this Jazz team not so much.

I also just don't think you can get upset and combative at fans that are unhappy in this situation. We had a team that was on fire and then the franchise decided to quit....this is the second year in a row of quitting half way through. It's his job, I get it it, but I wish he would get off his high horse. Even if it's better for the big picture, you're going to keep pissing off players/fans if you keep doing this.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah, like I said, regardless of whether you think the Jazz are doing well that tweet still does not sit right with me. Do not invoke the "OKC model" on upset fans. I think the two most relevant questions for this season have been "What is the point of this season" and "What are we doing". There was no mistaking the answers for those questions as an OKC fan on March 20th 2022. It was loud and clear....with this Jazz team not so much.

I also just don't think you can get upset and combative at fans that are unhappy in this situation. We had a team that was on fire and then the franchise decided to quit....this is the second year in a row of quitting half way through. It's his job, I get it it, but I wish he would get off his high horse. Even if it's better for the big picture, you're going to keep pissing off players/fans if you keep doing this.
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And I realize the front office can't be transparent about this... but the whole "no free playing time" and "guys must earn it" and "we want to be better sooner than later" is all inconsistent with how things have actually been managed by Will. Front office dealt him quite the hand though so I place less blame on him and give him some benefit of the doubt.

They have put themselves in a rough spot with this indecision too... unless they nail the draft or have a young guy level way the hell up each route is going to leave a good chunk of fans a little pissy.
 
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