Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Double posted.
Mike Longabardi (Defensive Guru)
- Thread starter Twin Towers
- Start date
Did you see how Grizzlies beat OKC last night? Their pace of play suited them just fine for the playoffs.
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Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
A couple things:
1. Hollins isn't their coach anymore.
2. We are NOT them.
We have an athletic group who needs a faster pace of play to succeed. They don't have athletic wings like Hayward, Burks, Evans, etc. When people try to comp us to Memphis, it is BS. I think they do it because we have two burly bigs, and Trey is often comped to Mike Conley. But, Favors and Kanter are a lot more athletic than Gasol and Randilph ever were. Just cause Trey is currently comped as Conley for a best case scenario doesn't mean ****. As far as I' concerned, Trey isn't defined yet, and he also hasn't won me over as PGOTF. We don't have the skills to dominate the half court, and that's why we ended up with a lot of low percentage late shot clock shots and violations this season. We need pace.
Don't be stupid.
green
Well-Known Member
You are wrong on a bunch of issues. Here is what happened with Hollins:
1 - He is not an overzealous vet lover. That is crazy. He developed Mike Conley and Gasol, Gay and Bayless and even Mayo looked good under Hollins. He probably has the best track record at developing young guys in available coaches.
2 - Not necessarily true. He liked Rudy Gay. John Hollingsworth (who was bashed constantly on here when he worked for ESPN) didn't think Gay fit in analytically, so Gay was traded. Hollins let management know he didn't like the trade.
Here is what really got him fired though: Hollingsworth came to practices and started pulling players out of Hollins' practices and holding his own practices. Hollins didn't like that, complained, and was fired.
Anyways, Lindsey isn't John Hollingsworth. He isn't so obsessed with analytics that he'd fire a coach that took him to the WCF's over it. JVG said it best when he said, "And Dennis combines old-school, traditional scouting methods with cutting-edge analytical methods. Because he can cross into both worlds, it allows him to be very, very unique."
3 - His pace of play averaged out to 18th his three years in Memphis. Not D'Antonio, but not Corbin either. His offensive efficiency was always middle of the pack as well. His defensive efficiency was top 10.
4 - It definitely is. And if Utah drafts Embiid or Randle, their offense had better be inside out as well. As far as the league heading that way, here are playoff teams that are inside out:
Indiana
Charlotte
Brooklyn
Atlanta
San Antonio
Clippers
Houston
Memphis
That's exactly half. Look at last year's conference finals: Indy, SA, Miami, OKC. So, unless you have Durrant or LeBron, your best shot is being a tough defensive team, who goes inside first.
5 - Yeah, Hollins had Gasol. And Hollins developed Gasol. I know he is a good defensive coach because his teams were top ten in efficiency. I know he can teach it to our guys because he has taught it to young guys. He has done it.
I'm not talking about Hollins you numb nut , I'm talking about your point being slow isn't the "new fad" in the NBA, etc, etc, etc, and therefore you feel we have to avoid it like the plague. Without Hollins, Grizz still plays really really slow, but my point is they're still able to get the job done in beating the ultra athletic OKC.
green
Well-Known Member
This whole inside out/outside in stuff is kind of silly. To be successful, you have to be able to hit the three and get layups. You need both. One won't cut it. You can get it two ways:
1 - pick and roll
2 - through the post.
If you don't have a post player, run the P&R, drive to the lane and get the layup or kick to shooters.
If you have a post player, get the ball in the post, get the easy "restricted" area shot, or kick it to shooters.
It's the same exact concept. You end up with the ball going towards the restricted area, and if the shot is available you take it. If the shot isn't available, you have hopefully pulled a second defender to the hoop with you, leaving someone open for the three.
Both work just fine. "Outside-in" is sexy right now because LeBron and Durrant are so good. When Shaq, Ducan, Malone were around, "inside-out" was all the rage. Inside-out vs Outside-in is irrelevant. What matters is having LeBron/Durrant/Jordan/Duncan/Shaq. Then having a coach to put them in positions to succeed.
1 - pick and roll
2 - through the post.
If you don't have a post player, run the P&R, drive to the lane and get the layup or kick to shooters.
If you have a post player, get the ball in the post, get the easy "restricted" area shot, or kick it to shooters.
It's the same exact concept. You end up with the ball going towards the restricted area, and if the shot is available you take it. If the shot isn't available, you have hopefully pulled a second defender to the hoop with you, leaving someone open for the three.
Both work just fine. "Outside-in" is sexy right now because LeBron and Durrant are so good. When Shaq, Ducan, Malone were around, "inside-out" was all the rage. Inside-out vs Outside-in is irrelevant. What matters is having LeBron/Durrant/Jordan/Duncan/Shaq. Then having a coach to put them in positions to succeed.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I don't have time to respond to everything here right now, but I will get to it.
What I wanted to point out is your list of inside-out teams is ********.
Most of those teams you listed are hybrids, and some are definitely not. The only two definitive ones are Charlotte and Memphis.
RC Buford in his interview with Zach Lowe just said they are not inside-out anymore, and haven't been for a couple years. They've been scouting players who can create off the dribble.
Houston is outside-in.
Indiana is a hybrid, and when they've played inside-out recently, it hasn't worked.
Atlanta is outside-in with Sap and Antic, and that's how they exposed Indiana, because Hibbert and West can"t keep up.
Clippers are a hybrid.
Brooklyn is a hybrid.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Hotnickkkkk name calling? What about "love your neighbour?"
Once again, since you hdidn't grasp it the first time, it works for them, because of who they are. We are not them, nor are we on a trajectory that will make us them, and with the way the league is shaping up, we shouldn't try to be them. We've played extremely slow the past couple seasons, and as a result we haven't seen success. Our strength is with our athleticism, and to capitalize on that we need pace.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I agree that there success came from the tough defense, but when they play isnide-out, they have some matchup nightmares, i.e., ATL.
At the beginning of the year when Paul George was shooting well, they ran more outside-in stuff, and that's when they were really good. I just don't think Paul George has the offensive talent to be a #1 option.
But running things through Hibbert and West isn't potent enough to beat teams who can really play outside-in.
green
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you wrote, which is why I keep saying George isn't a superstar and Indy won't ever win a title. BUT, when they utilize the post more, pulling defenders into the pain, George looks amazing. That's why I call them an inside out team.
With OKC and Miami, the outside guy initiates the offense and the ball then travels in.
I will give you the hybrids though.
Basically it boils down to this: You better have LeBron, Durrant or Duncan, or you really don't have a chance.
LOL.. bro, newsflash, the reason we haven't seen success is having Ty Corbin as our coach.