To those who are here to discuss the topic of this thread, ignore this far-too-long post. It's not relevant to Millsap/Hayward to the Cavs discussion.
So what you're saying is that you're looking at players trade value instead of his value on the team? That says it all.
That's my philosophy. If the Jazz were desperate for a PG then I'd value them a little higher but IMO the Jazz are not desperate. I'm not opposed to drafting a PG if he's an obvious top talent, but I don't think Knight is.
you honestly think Motiejunas has Bargnani talent?
I think I said "IF" Motiejunas has Bargnani talent. At 12 I would take that gamble and hope it pays off rather than take a PG I don't need and I'm not gaga over.
you think Knight will be a pretty good player, and then say you're uncertain of him.
Yeah. I think he will be pretty good. I'm not certain of it. Regardless, I think the Jazz can pass on him and find a decent PG another year. I'm fond of Kendall Marshall - I like to get value out of draft picks and since bigs rise then smalls will fall and I think you can find a decent PG outside of the lottery. Since you tend to have this luxury with PGs I prefer gambling on bigs if a big with upside is there when my team is picking. A big with decent enough upside might be there at 12 this year. And since the Jazz have Harris it's an ok time to take the gamble there.
You say things like the former to make sure you aren't pissing anybody off, and then you say things like the latter to bolster your argument. Stick to your own opinions. Sure, things change, but you're letting yourself be way too influenced by stats and outside sources. WATCH these players play and then use the combination of impressions and combine performance to help mold your opinions.
Why would I want to piss people off? I'm here to talk Jazz, not look for a fight. You're getting a little more global here and making accusations about me rather than sticking to the subject. I'm not looking to add to my list of enemies, so I'm sorry we're into this spat over a difference of opinion. It's a message board, guy. It's not like we're making the decisions anyway.
But back to the fun subject - after watching these players play I get definite impressions of them, but I am also influenced by well constructed opinions of posters on here or in the media who have had a closer look than I have. I don't consider myself the final word on anything so why wouldn't I want more information? There are posters on here who have a history of observing players in the Kentucky program so I appreciate their input and am eager for them to influence my own opinion.
Saying that Motiejunas is worth the risk more than Knight is absolutely mind-blowing and completely idiotic. Motiejunas doesn't have defensive warts, he doesn't have defense at all.
In one of my previous posts I said Motiejunas' lack of defense was a negative but, for reasons I've stated regarding decent PGs falling into the teens, I see gambling on Motiejunas' reaching a Bargnani-esque ceiling worth the risk of missing out on Knight.
Also, drafting a point guard this year doesn't mean he's going to come in right away and be the man. We draft players so they can develop into their potential within a few season and grow from there on. So by your 2-3 years standards, a guy like Knight THIS year would be perfect so by the time Harris' contract runs out, we've got a guy ready to step in and take the reins, rather than drafting somebody that's going to come in and make rookie mistakes for a team that's contending for the playoffs.
Yeah, I agree with you that Knight won't be ready right away anyway, so he'll need time to develop - and since the Jazz have Harris he'll have that time. But at pick 6 I'd want a guy that's not a couple years away. It won't cost the Jazz a top 6-12 pick to grab a not-quite-ready PG in another year, so why waste such a high pick? I'm for using that high pick on a premium big with a potentially higher value in the league. I think I'm repeating myself.
I'm nowhere near certain on any of these players, because that's not possible, but I'm giving them their due credit, unlike yourself. You're using your bias to dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole, while also contradicting yourself every three or four posts. The thing is, I actually agree with some of your evaluations, but the only reason you're arguing that you'd take players like Singleton and Motiejunas over Knight is to make yourself look better for seriously underrating his potential.
Digressing again into global accusations about me. Again, my opinion boils down to preferring to gamble on a big over a PG. We both agree on Knight's ceiling. Pretty good, not great. I think we agree there. I dunno. Knight was certainly clutch in the tourney, but still I'm not sure he'll even be as good as Harris.
In the past week you have said that he can be a very good point guard, that you'd take him if we still had the six pick,
My memory's vague here but I may have said this. I apologize. Maybe I was conceding that Knight was talented enough to be drafted there. This year anyway. I still wouldn't do it. Especially not this year when the Jazz don't need him. And it goes against my philosophy to not draft a PG there unless they have stud potential, and we all know I don't see that in Knight. Again, I'd rather gamble on a big becoming the next Bargnani or Ben Wallace. What am I out if my pick busts? A pretty good PG. Big deal, I can still grab one of those next year at the end of the first round: Kendall Marshall is a soft enough landing pad.
the reason you wouldn't take him is because Kanter is the obvious choice at 3 (I agree), while also saying that you'd probably take the likes of Vesely, Motiejunas, Singleton, Valenciunas, Brooks, Biyombo, and other one-dimensional or unkown players because he's a guy that you can get in any daft. He's not going to be the next Drose, Wall, or whoever else, but that doesn't mean he's **** as you're claiming (for now).
Ok, I'm not vague on this point: I have never said Knight was **** or any other expletive. I like Knight fine but I wouldn't draft him at 3, at 6, and probably not even at 12. But I never thought my opinion, which means nothing since I have no influence over Kevin O'Connor, would be taken personally by another poster. But I guess it's easy to get sucked into attaching our egos to players, and when someone doesn't see the value in them it can feel like a personal attack.
There's a reason he's projected where he's at.
I know. He was a top HS prospect. He was a freshman PG on a team that went to the final four. Along the way he demonstrated he's very clutch. He's a 4.0 student, a smart, high-character kid who said he'd really like to play for the Jazz. All these things are significant. So why am I not on the bandwagon?
In spite of his clutch shots I was never all that wowed by him as a PG. Or a SG. I saw/see him as a good but not great player. Which again, is the reason I'd prefer to gamble on one of those "one-dimensional" bigs. Again, Kendall Marshall will provide me a safe landing. You might think differently but I don't see the difference between Knight and Marshall as one that will negatively affect the Jazz.
You're flip-flopping your opinions not because of viable information coming in, but because you know you've backed yourself into a corner and are too stubborn to accept it. And that's honestly all I need to know.
This is my cue to either make some smart retort or concede to my better. Ok fine I concede, but I don't know what I'm supposed to be conceding to. I try to avoid getting into little spats on a basketball message board. What's the point? And yet here I am. haha - jokes on me. I'll concede that.
We both share the same opinion of Knight - that he'll be a good not great PG. We do not share where to draft that kind of PG. That's all.
I don't look to attack other posters because of their opinions. I apologize if I'm just naturally condescending. It's a gift and a curse.
